Pescator Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 ¸ÃÃÃ´Ò ¼Ã¡Ô¹¢éÒÇ·ÕèºéÒ¹»¡µÕ ¼Ã¡Ô¹¢éÒÇ·ÕèºéÒ¹ Hi Markle, Wouldn`t you in the first example insert the word "Dtarm"? Dtarm thammada Phom Gin Khao Tee Baan. And thus making the adjective into an adverb. Sorry no thai fonts on this pc, but I am sure you get it anyway You could of course use it in the second sentense as well. Cheers Hua Nguu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I've heard/used 'tdarm bokatee' but I'm not familiar with 'tdaarm tammada' sounds like it could be possible but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 <<I've heard/used 'tdarm bokatee' but I'm not familiar with 'tdaarm tammada' sounds like it could be possible but I'm not sure.>> Now that I know what you wrote, I agree with Hua Ngoo. Tham-ma-daa would be incorrect, thaam tham-ma-daa would be technically correct but awkward, and pok-ka-ti would be correct. <<And you're the one dispensing advice?>> I may be illiterate, but I can communicate with a great deal of fluency, even now after several years of not using the language at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Says luckyfarang: ...even now after several years of not using the language at all. This keeps getting better, do you have anything else to undermine your credibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Why the presumption that being unable to read Thai means one shouldn't comment on language matters? God, what a crock! I used to play cards with this one group of Thais, one of whom spit her words out like a machine gun. Each word was enunciated perfectly, and her range was quite extensive. One day as we were leaving the house she asked my g/f to write a message to thank the owner. You see, this woman could neither read nor write Thai. But so what? That hardly made her any less knowledgable regarding proper usage of the language. Less condescension, less elitism, and more helpful understanding, plz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi.. while I agree that Markle is being a bit harsh on luckyfarang I also think that it should be a forum that we all can learn on and accpet criticism for mistakes or misguided advice.. Also, one little thing in your anecdote about this girl that you seem to have missed is the fact that she IS Thai, and will naturally speak the language fluently with correct usage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Says markle: Says luckyfarang:...even now after several years of not using the language at all. This keeps getting better, do you have anything else to undermine your credibility? Mr. Markle The only credibility I need is that when I speak, the Thai people immediately understand, and when I listen I can understand them. The understanding part is what suffers most when I've been away for a long time. The speaking part is burned forever into my brain. My whole point was that even after more than two years out of country, I still speak Thai better than 99% of the farang that you will ever meet, literate or illiterate, including yourself. You will be able to hear for yourself when I arrive in BKK the second week in May. And after a month or two in country, I will be magnitudes more fluent than the day I arrive. Speaking Thai fluently is about a LOT more than just knowing the 'dictionary definition' of every single word in the Thai language. It is about the usages of individual words and phrases, and being able to communicate thoughts and ideas as a Thai person would, using those words and phrases. Thai is highly idiomatic, and does not translate very well on a word for word basis. You could know the 'direct' translation of every single word in the dictionary, but still be unable to communicate well in Thai if you tried to structure your thoughts in a Western language and then translate directly. This is why we can learn a lot from others online who know specific usages of words, that are rarely explained adequately in language books or dictionaries. A good but simplistic example is HAA® MAW®. You can understand that HAA® is "to look for" and MAW® is "doctor" or "educated man", but if you told a Thai person that you have an appointment with a doctor "NAT(h) WAI(h) MAW® they might think that you had a "date" with the doctor. If you said you were going to visit a doctor PAI YEEAM MAW®, they might think that you were going on a social visit. If you want it to be understood that you went looking for medical treatment, you must say 'look for a doctor', HAA® MAW®, just as a Thai person would, even though you've lived next door to the doctor for many years and know exactly where to find him. I greatly enjoy meeting farang who can speak Thai proficiently and are capable of having a stimulating conversation, but I rarely ever have. It would be great to hang around with and learn from such a person. Truly bilingual Thais are IMO extremely rare, no matter what Jasmine might have you think, and their weak point would usually be in English. Only through this board have I really become aware that there are any farang out there at all who are conversant in Thai. In my personal experience I know a number of farang who have resided in Thailand for 20 to 30 years and still have an atrocious accent and tiny vocabulary. It seems logical that I would eventually bump into some fluent farang, and thanks to the internet, it should be happening soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Yes, of course. My point was, being able to speak well and properly is not dependent on being able to read or write. Myself, I've loved linguistics since grade school. Words utterly fascinate me, especially their origins. My business partner from Colombia also enjoyed wordsmithery, and after business hours we'd sometimes crack open a few St. Pauli Girls and I'd pick out a few choice items from Webster's. Highly entertaining! About learning Thai, I read my Thai dictionary from time to time, which helps unlock old unsolved mysteries. However, most of what I know is from immersion; listening to those around me, and from popular music and film. I'd rather speak like everybody else than try to experiment on my own from a book. Remember that language is fluid. Words go in and out of style, and books are slow to catch up. An insurance rep in Cholburi that I e-chat with is constantly feeding me new words and expressions. She's got a wicked sense of humor. I've got a seat waiting for me at Chula someday for some formal classroom teachings, but I'm good with where I'm at for now. To Lucky: Yep...I know tons of American husbands who've been married for 20, 30 years to their tee-rahks but can't speak a dime's worth of Thai other than sa-wat-dee khap - most simply have no interest. And others have accents so horrible it actually hurts to listen. I never say anything, but always encourage further effort. If you have a good ear, the tones will come and everything falls into place later. Ya either got it or ya don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Interesting argument (if you can call that) between Markle and LF about the language and how to get about speaking it properly. My observation from various posts is that although Markle seems to have in depth knowlegde of the Thai language, his sample sentences to not always reflect real spoken Thai. His knowledge (and please Markle correct me if I'm wrong) is more from academic research than from speaking with the avarage Thai. LF does not write Thai (or so he says). Although IMO this hampers one's ability to reach a certain level, it is fo some possible to speak Thai (or any other language for that matter) quite fluently with almost no accent. Those that can are indeed lucky. I consider myself one of them, although I do read Thai quite well. Most of my Thai I've learned from speaking with Thais around me. In fact I speak probably more in Thai nowadays than English. I have yet to meet a farang who can speak as well as I do (not wanting to boast here, but unfortunately doing so). All of my Thai friends have said the same. So perhaps LF you are the one, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Wouldn`t you in the first example insert the word "Dtarm"? NO, just »¡µÕ is sufficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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