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"bpok a tee" or "tham a dah"


gawguy

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Hi Markle,

 

I've heard/used 'tdarm bokatee' but I'm not familiar with 'tdaarm tammada' sounds like it could be possible but I'm not sure

 

I seemed to recall that I learnt that expression from the Linguaphone course and I still have that around somewhere. Just went to look it up. Sure enough it is there in lesson 28. Dtaarm thammadaa. :)

And in my dic as well by the way.

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

 

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¸ÃÃÃ´Ò ¼Ã¡Ô¹¢éÒÇ·ÕèºéÒ¹

»¡µÕ ¼Ã¡Ô¹¢éÒÇ·ÕèºéÒ¹


 

Wouldn`t you in the first example insert the word "Dtarm"?

 

NO, just »¡µÕ is sufficient

 

Yes, we all agree on that, however, I was talking about the *first* example.

 

Thammada on its own is an adjective but then again so is Pokati and I`ve heard that used often enough on it`s own as an adverb so I guess Thammadaa can be used on it`s own as well as an adverb although it is technically incorrect.

But hey It is thai afterall ::

 

cheers

Hua Nguu

 

 

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Hi O,

 

I have yet to meet a farang who can speak as well as I do (not wanting to boast here, but unfortunately doing so). All of my Thai friends have said the same.


 

I too have met very few westerners who speak thai like a native. But that is probably only due to the fact that I am very unlikely to bump into any as I mostly stay upcountry.

I reckon that if I moved in the right circles in bkk, among professionals I guess there would be plenty.

 

Concerning your thai friends, don`t let yourself get carried away. My friends say that about me too and I am not exactly fluent in thai ::

 

Cheers

Hua Nguu

 

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Concerning your thai friends, don`t let yourself get carried away. My friends say that about me too and I am not exactly fluent in thai

 

It's in that that we differ, because I dare say that I am, at least on most subjects.

On the phone, most Thais dont' know they're talking to a farang, which looks like a good indication.

 

Nver really studied the language though, although I did take some reading lessons way back in the mid eighties.

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This seems to have somewhere gone off the original thread topic but nevermind...

 

"On the phone, most Thais dont' know they're talking to a farang, which looks like a good indication.

 

Nver really studied the language though, although I did take some reading lessons way back in the mid eighties."

 

Wow, that's good.

 

I think I remember reading that you've been here quite some time.. Just interested to know how much effort you've put into learning your Thai in the time you've spent here... As was mentioned I too know some folk who've been around for 20 odd years or so and speak very poor Thai.. I guess it all comes down to effort and your ability to grasp the language and your ability to mix with Thai people also...I guess who you choose to mix with would be a contributing factor too.

 

Personally, I've been living in this country only 4 and a half years. But I've put in a consistent effort since day one with the language, and pretty much on a daily or if not at least weekly basis do some form of study. I've taken it on as an interest I guess you could say, and find it very satisfying. I actually studied and learned to read Thai formally in Australia before I came here. I don't wanna bore you all, but I will just briefly try to point out how I believe being 'literate' has helped accelerate my learning and given me a greater understanding.... I can't name how many times it's been useful to have a word spelled out to me so I can furthur grasp the meaning of it perhaps from a related word, or to fully appreciate the pronounciation of the word with correct tones etc... Also, to be able to look up a Thai word in a good Thai-English dictionary and get a nice concise definition in English has been more than useful. I learn every day just sitting on the bus or walking down the street by reading signs of shops and notices here and there furthur expanding my vocabulary. I read and fill in forms in Thai occasionally, helping me to understand the more menial vocabulary that you normally wouldn't bother to learn for interests sake. Watching movies/UBC - listening to the English and being able to read the translation in Thai has gotta help you learn at a better pace too. I also have a large contingent of Thai internet chat 'friends' that I chat to on a regular basis on the net in Thai using Thai characters. I can now touch-type Thai due to this practice. Anyway, needless to say, all this learning from reading has helped me to become a good reader also. I can read Thai at a pretty decent rate now without plodding along on every sentence.. (reading and comprehension are two different things though I must add - there is a hell of a lot of stuff that I could easily read-off but have difficulty in comprehending it properly, or at all..)

 

So, even after this time and still studying.. (studying Thai now full-time for a year at Chula) I guess I'd grade myself from an average to good speaker of Thai. I guess my main point is that I don't think I'd have gotten anywhere near my level of Thai without the effort I've made and without my reading abilities. That's not to say that if you don't read you won't be able to speak the language well. But reading gives you a much broader understanding and definately makes learning much faster - that I can vouch for.

 

I think any effort from anyone is worth praise but there still seems to be a breed of Thai speaker that think they can speak the language and understand the Thais with a little bar-talk banter and no real concentrated effort. I don't know.. just my idea on things..

 

Cheers

FF

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Says orandanodes:

Interesting argument (if you can call that) between Markle and LF about the language and how to get about speaking it properly.

 

My observation from various posts is that although Markle seems to have in depth knowlegde of the Thai language, his sample sentences to not always reflect real spoken Thai. His knowledge (and please Markle correct me if I'm wrong) is more from academic research than from speaking with the avarage Thai.

 

LF does not write Thai (or so he says). Although IMO this hampers one's ability to reach a certain level, it is fo some possible to speak Thai (or any other language for that matter) quite fluently with almost no accent. Those that can are indeed lucky.

 

I consider myself one of them, although I do read Thai quite well. Most of my Thai I've learned from speaking with Thais around me. In fact I speak probably more in Thai nowadays than English.

 

I have yet to meet a farang who can speak as well as I do (not wanting to boast here, but unfortunately doing so). All of my Thai friends have said the same.

So perhaps LF you are the one, who knows.

 


 

I know that my post must have sounded like boasting, also. Especially since I've been out of country for two years and don't read or write a lick.

 

The way I see it, though, if it's true, then it's not boasting.

 

I am now at the point that inability to read and write is affecting my further progress, especially with words that sound alike but are spelled differently. And occasionally I will confuse the tones on a word that I use or hear used infrequently. I intend to start learning the alphabet soon.

 

I agree that Markle sounds well informed generally, but seems to be more a product of book learning than exposure to the speaking habits of the Thai populus. Take for example his use of THAM-MA-DAH posted above. You would not ever hear an educated Thai use it in such a sloppy manner.

 

The first hurdle for me was being able to differentiate and reproduce the tones. This took over a year of listening, about the same time that an infant takes before attempting to speak.

 

The next hurdle was learning to THINK in Thai. This is necessary for conversational fluency.

 

There is simply not enough time to think a thought in English, translate to Thai and then speak it. The conversation just would not flow.

 

Conversely, there is not enough time to first listen to a sentence in Thai, next translate to English words and then digest the communicated thought.

 

One MUST learn to think in Thai in order to communicate effectively in Thai, and I don't think that there are ANY classes out there teaching THAT.

 

I accomplished it by thinking every thought simultaneously in English and Thai for about two years.

 

Another important aspect is to concentrate on the specific usages of words, not just dictionary definitions. This is because very few words, less than 50% IMO, will translate perfectly from Thai to English.

 

HAI(f) is a good example. On the surface this seems to translate perfectly as "to give".

 

But before a verb it translates as "let" and after a verb it translates as "for me, for him, for you, etc", so it is not just a direct translation of "to give".

 

Thus, IMO there is no amount of book learning that will suffice to learn the actual usages of words in the manner of a Thai.

 

What surprises me most is not that I have been able to grasp spoken Thai as a non-resident, but the complete failure of most long term residents to grasp spoken Thai at even a basic conversational level.

 

 

Maybe we can meet up in May.

 

 

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Says luckyfarang:

 

I agree that Markle sounds well informed generally, but seems to be more a product of book learning than exposure to the speaking habits of the Thai populus.

 

So how exposed are you to the speaking habits of the Thai populus while you are not in the country.

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Says orandanodes:

His knowledge (and please Markle correct me if I'm wrong) is more from academic research than from speaking with the avarage Thai.


 

Not wrong, just mistaken.

How well do I speak Thai? Well as has been noted already Thais are an inaccurate judge of language ability (although my GF has told me of people who speak better than me) so there is no point in saying that Thais say I speak like a Thai. Actually my ability varies considerably on the situation. In a pressure situation my Thai breaks down considerably. If I'm relaxed and chatting it is pretty much spot on.

How did I learn? Well I have been speaking Thai almost daily for 15 years. Even when I was back home for 6 years I lived with a Thai GF that I spoke Thai to and worked in a Thai restaurant. I learnt initially as an exchange student living with a family (with very basic English skills) so after a year I was at a conversational level. I've never undertaken formal study although I seriously considered it doing so, so I could sit the P.6 and M.3 exams. I've picked up bits and pieces from various books but I'm at a loss to recommend one as the definitive book to learn Thai language. I find it curious that some find my Thai 'book learnt', but then again I find that their Thai is the same way. As I said I learnt Thai in a domestic situation with a lot of teenage forms of speech. Recently I've been working as a teacher so I've picked up more formal 'correct' forms of speech from my fellow (Thai) teachers. I probably use them more on the board. Again I find it strange that someone would learn Thai but still remain ignorant of reading or writing the language.

Unfortunately I'm leaving at the very beginning of May so I will miss the opportunity to take this pissing contest into the real world. I suspect our lucky falang will soon discover how much his Thai has deteriorated (as I did) and how much further he has to go.

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