khunsanuk Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi, Before continuing please let me say that I am aware that the following may offend some people. Let me assure you though that it is not meant to offend or show disrespect. Was at a mother's day celebration a few days back, upcountry, and once again was surprised at the fact that monks sit higher than the rest of us, and even more surprisingly eat before everybody else. Nobody is allowed to eat until the monks finish their food. Now coming from the point of view that everybody is equal (and only our actions cause us to gain or lose respect), I find it very strange to see these things in a religion which I believe promotes equality. Can someone explain to me why the monks deserve to eat before anybody else? I rather doubt that the Lord Buddha would have accepted this practice himself On a related topic, I was also rather taken aback when one of the monks came over to talk to my wife after the ceremony and pretty much blatantly asked her to donate lots of money to the temple since I must be rich guy who could easily afford it. Almost the entire conversation they had was about money. Must admit that that one pissed me off, and I think it was better for all involved that I didn't hear the full extent until afterwards. To offset some of this negativity, we also ran into another monk (a friend of my father-in-law) and this guy does get my full respect. Very friendly man and very nice to talk to. The conversation with him was about how he regretted not being able to talk to a farang a while ago and that he would really like to learn English. My wife suggested later (after we had left) that she would buy him a book. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 >>>Can someone explain to me why the monks deserve to eat before anybody else?<<< people there respect the institution - not the merits of individual monks. also, monks are not supposed to eat after 12 o'clock. >>>and pretty much blatantly asked her to donate lots of money to the temple since I must be rich guy who could easily afford it.<<< there are all sorts of monks. it gets a bit difficult though to find the good guys. a thai friend of mine has said a while ago that he would rather "tam bun" with a streetdog than a monk... >>>we also ran into another monk (a friend of my father-in-law) and this guy does get my full respect. Very friendly man and very nice to talk to.<<< that's the way - if you find one you can truly respect, stick with him and forget about the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Can someone explain to me why the monks deserve to eat before anybody else? ------------------------------ Did you ask your wife? Often in family parties, we have the kids eat first. What I mean is that your question is a farang question and may not have too much import to thai folks. Myself, I can't even remember if monks eat before in such occasions, they probably did, but it did not register as something so unequal to me. We know monks in Thailand have a different status than the laicity. Just TIT, nothing to do with the lord Buddha since many credos of Buddhism have sprung out since his death. Also, rich thais do give to their temple or favorite sect/monk, the monk assuming that being farang means having money was expecting you to come forward to do the "look how I am generous!" thing that seem to be so important to well-off thais to show. There is one tradition i find ridiculous and mysoginistic: that women can talk and give food to monks but cannot sit next to one, and really that women cannot be ordained nuns, though if we look in history, there were ordained nuns in Thailand before. Ultimately, this is what makes Thailand Thailand, and I enjoy noticing and pondering about all these cultural traits, good and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 "There is one tradition i find ridiculous and mysoginistic: that women can talk and give food to monks but cannot sit next to one, and really that women cannot be ordained nuns, though if we look in history, there were ordained nuns in Thailand before." .................................................................... I think you are wrong about the nun part. During my ex's last visit to Thailand she was a nun for a short period together with a friend. I don't know about ordination etc, but it seemed like when men enter monkhood for a short period. Ceremony, robes etc. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi, "also, monks are not supposed to eat after 12 o'clock." I know, but that does not explain why others are not allowed to eat at the same time. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi, "Did you ask your wife?" No. On the way back to the house, the car was filled with other Thais and I did not want to cause potential embarressment by asking this. Might ask her when I get home though, but I kinda expect an answer like "well, they just do". "the monk assuming that being farang means having money was expecting you to come forward to do the "look how I am generous!" thing that seem to be so important to well-off thais to show." Possibly, but I still find it awkward that he just so blatantly asked for it. If I wish to make merit / donate, I will do so. I do not need someone to tell me to do so. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 but it seemed like when men enter monkhood -------------------------------------- they do not enter the monkhood. Though people say so and so was a monk to give merit to his parents, this is not accurate. A monk has to be ordained, and for that must pledge to abide by the 227 rules of the monkhood. Novices do learn that, by rote, but are not required to follow these rules, only a few, during their lent. IMO, comparable to a retreat like i did in the catholic religion, before my "communion solennelle", not sure what it's called in english. yes, there are women who do retreats in temple, but they have no special status within the Sangha, and girls do not become novices to give merit to their parents. There have been very few cases of women being ordained upcountry and the Sangha authorities had them disrobed, and threaten the monks who would do such ordination to get disrobed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi, "I think you are wrong about the nun part." No, I think P127 is correct on this part. My wife too became a nun for a week when a close friend died, but as far as I know women cannot be ordained. Also, they are not allowed to wear the saffron robes, they wear white ones. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I do not need someone to tell me to do so. ----------------------------------- Yep. Everybody wants money and they want it now! Expect tele-marketing monks soon..... :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 No, I think P127 is correct on this part. -------------------------------- You bet, Buddhism and thai B. in particular is one of my forte. A few other interests too which don't get expressed on this secular board . Ahahah, BB will rant again but these 7+++ posts are only the tip of the iceberg :: :: :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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