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The Fake Diploma issue


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I used to have a link for a web site where one could virtually purchase almost any type of document. I was tempted to obtain some 'high profile' certificate or degree; but, then I realised it was a waste of money ... for me at least. If I can find the site again, I will provide the link ... it's facinating and very tempting! :shhh:

 

I am in complete agreement with those who say that such a 'document' should not be used for anything but a joke or entertainment.

 

Have you seen the vendor at Don Muang who can put you in a photo with G.W., etc. ? ... some of the other photo 'opps' are really great! Check it out.

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>>>There are some jobs that you need the critical thinking / problem solving skills that a degree gives you.<<<

 

 

sorry, but a degree does not give you those qualities automatically. lots of other occupations can give you those skills as well.

a degree gives you nothing else than a limited theoretical expertise in your chosen profession.

 

i do somehow resent your constant bragging about your degree. that comes somewhat across as a very superior attitude towards others.

some people simply do not want to waste years of their life in university. for example me. and yes, i could have went, could still go. i might do that when i am old and tired. but now i see it as a waste of time.

 

and here in thailand, most jobs, such as teaching, do ask for degrees, but are in the end some mickeymouse jobs which hardly demand a degree in practise.

 

i don't see the problem if some guy buys a degree to do a bit of teaching here. if he can't do the job he'll be gone anyhow - degree or not. it's not like that he poses as something like a medical doctor or some other lifesaving profession.

it's nothing else than a bit of english teaching. lets keep it in perspective please.

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Buying a phony degree is not a problem. The problem is showing off the degree. I graduated from engineering school and one thing I never did was show off my degree. I do not even know where the paper is. I have also interviewed and hired several people. None showed me their degree nor did I ask. If one did show me a paper, I would immediately raise an eye brow. Paper is paper, nothing else.

 

Worked at one place where the department head was having an affair with a factory worker. She wanted more money. He hired her as a secretary. She did not know secretarial work, so he hired her as an engineer. She got fired, he got fired. That is the way it goes.

 

If one wants paper, the easiest way to do it is to 'get' it from a college or university that is no longer in business. Just make sure the years you went there are years the place actually was in business. In the real world, people bull shit about everything. What people claim on resumes, probably is only one half accurate, if at that. After you interview enough people, you can tell a bull shitter fron a non bull shitter. If you get the phony paper, makes sure you know what you are talking about.

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'sorry, but a degree does not give you those qualities automatically. lots of other occupations can give you those skills as well.

a degree gives you nothing else than a limited theoretical expertise in your chosen profession. '

 

Not really! A university education gives you much more! If it was only memorizing a limited amount of information then sure any book could give you the skills. Communication, teamwork, deadlines, pressure, problem solving, critical thinking, thinking for yourself etc are just a few skills that most university graduates should have.

 

 

 

There is one "teacher" I know without a degree. He is earning 20x the average thai salary. But as soon as he opens his mouth everyone who is educated knows he did not earn the degree but bought it. He is a idiot who knows how to play the thai management. He should not be in this position and only is because he bought a degree. Is this fair?

 

Would you like someone teaching a university student English who has just graduated from high school. How about grade 9 ?? Where do YOU draw the line? What would the student think if they found out they have more education than the teacher? It is wrong. 100%.

 

Thailand's education system is being hurt because of this. They have some of the lowest stardards of English in the region I believe mainly because of this. [color:"red"] you have uneducated people thinking they are educators. [/color] just so they can get a pay cheque and deposit it into some fix. It is bullshit!!!!

 

Well it is up to you if you see it as a waste of time. Your choice. But since you have not experienced it nor intend to experience higher education, I really dont see where you get your knowledge on whether it is necessary or not and what skills it gives you.

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"If I was in your shoes I'd pity not resent such people being so desperate to do this"

 

Should I pity the guy who comes and steals my TV? Should I pity the corrupt politician? In most western societies , almost anyone with the drive and brains can go to university. Costs are cheap enough (except for the US) and there is goverment support to help people get there.

 

 

 

"if they cant it must illustrate the short comings of the Thai education system and I'd consider moving on to Singapore or Japan where pay and standards will be higher"

 

So you are saying that anyone who is educated should not be teaching in Thailand. The standards and pay are not necessarily higher in those countries for international school teachers. Plus with the higher cost of living, I know many people who save alot more money here than in other places.

 

 

Imagine if you are payihg good money to send you kid to school to be educated by the best you can afford? You work hard everyday and sacrifice so your offspring can have a better future and you find out that everyone at the school bought there degree just so they can get a one year visa to stay in Thailand so they can screw around? This is happening at all levels. I know university profs, and teachers at the one of the top 3 INTERNATIONAL schools in Thailand who have bought a degree and faked their way into a job. If the parents knew that they are paying 400,000B a year plus a 200,000B entrance fee for this/these guys to teach their children it would make the paper.

 

I think I will go print off a MD with a fellowship in general surgery. Who wants to line up for the WYD medical clinic?? I dont need the degree it is only a piece of paper and I can wing it. I know how to use a drill and saw, I have the skills to do it. Take a number please.

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[if you want to bitch against someone at least have the decency to do it with your real handle and not one made up specifically for this post. Rather pathetic and cowardly, don't you think? - KS]

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>>>There is one "teacher" I know without a degree. He is earning 20x the average thai salary....<<<

 

 

well, and i know lots of teachers with degrees who go hungover into the classrooms, chatting up female students. what does it say? nothing.

and i know teachers who are dedicated, but have no degree whatsoever, and do a fabulous job. what does it say? nothing again.

as i remember from my own schooldays, being a good or a bad teacher has nothing whatsoever to do with a degree, but with communicationskills and dedication. those two things no degree will ever give you.

 

 

>>>Thailand's education system is being hurt because of this. <<<

 

there are a lot more things wrong with the thai education systhem than a few foreigners teaching english with phony degrees. that is something which many teachers just cannot understand - in the larger scheme of things they are not that important compared to many other more pressing matters.

see, i am a german. i learned english in school. i never had a native english teacher, just a couple of germans with degrees. some were better than the others. anyhow, i would say that my english is, even though the lack of native english speakers as teachers, rather sufficient (so far the only problems i have had were with kerouac, trainspotting and shakespeare).

thailand won't go down the drain because of a few teachers with phony degrees.

 

 

>>>But since you have not experienced it nor intend to experience higher education, I really dont see where you get your knowledge on whether it is necessary or not and what skills it gives you. <<<

 

practical experience.

private research (so far enough that several universities use some of my research as teaching material).

and as i have grown up around university professors (not some mickymouse universities), still count a few my friends, and have a humanistic education, and have to constantly read university papers as a theoretical support for my very practical job (especially anthropological studies), i think i have a rather good idea what "higher education" means.

 

 

by the way, i was a teacher once. for mentally and physically handicapped children. at one time i was given the most difficult case by the degree holders as they just could not handle the kid. an autistic child. for some reason i found a line to that kid. after a few days it was actually communicating with me. that pissed the professional teachers off tremendously.

to get back at me they gave the kid incredibly bad remarks in their report which was affecting the future of that child. nothing i could do or say as i was just the "assistant"...

another of the "professional" teachers i found molesting a 11 year old boy. obviously i was disgusted and tried to do something. my attempts of reporting that incident were stopped very fast.

 

 

please, just step down from your throne for a sec here. as long as you are not a noble price winner or something like that i am not that impressed with your degree (or anyone else's).

your shit stinks the same as mine.

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"well, and i know lots of teachers with degrees who go hungover into the classrooms, chatting up female students. what does it say? nothing.

and i know teachers who are dedicated, but have no degree whatsoever, and do a fabulous job. what does it say? nothing again.

as i remember from my own schooldays, being a good or a bad teacher has nothing whatsoever to do with a degree, but with communicationskills and dedication. those two things no degree will ever give you."

 

Yes I agree. At some schools the stardards are shit. I have looked hard and long at a good ESL shool for my wife since she needs to be at the native speaker level in 2-3 years. The education system as a whole needs a good overhaul. I have 2 degrees in the field of study of what I am teaching and I still have to work damn hard to get the information down. In my first year I would have to prep about 1.5 hours for every hour I was teaching. I can not imagine trying to teach it if I did not study it for 6 years. It could not be winged with a movie and an internet site and some reading from a book. The goverment realized the stardards were crap and 1.5 years started the "elegibility criteria for teacher registration with the Thai ministry of education" act which tried to get rid of the people who are just using a teaching job to get a one year visa so they could go out and drink. If you get rid of these types of teachers then the entire professional atmosphere in thai schools would increase and the levels of education would be better.

 

 

Did any of your ESL teachers in Germany buy a degree so they could stay in germany and do a job they never considered doing before back in their homeland?? wont not think so. Were they all proffessional and qualified to do the job??. I can be sure with high german standards that they were.

 

I can honestly say I no not think I am higher than a non degree holder, as you are implying. I am just saying that there has been a number of people who have really pissed me off because of their non professional additutes in the education system. Most of these people just use teaching as a way to stay in thailand and by selling fake degrees this precipitates it. Sure if they get rid of all people with fake degrees, Thailand would lose some valuable teachers, but for the most part it would weed out the unprofessional ones

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>>>I have 2 degrees in the field of study of what I am teaching and I still have to work damn hard to get the information down. In my first year I would have to prep about 1.5 hours for every hour I was teaching. I can not imagine trying to teach it if I did not study it for 6 years. <<<

 

if your subject is anything else than language (communication, not university level), such as natural science, than i guess a degree is unavoidable.

but most of the fake degree holders i know of do teach nothing else than some language classes with emphasis on communication. not the most demanding job. ;)

most of those guys are intelligent enough not to go for any kind of job where their fake degrees would easily be found out by their lack of skills.

those jobs are at the bottom of the pay chain, and few with a proper degree would need to apply there.

 

>>>I am just saying that there has been a number of people who have really pissed me off because of their non professional additutes in the education system.<<<

 

lots of them hold degrees as well. thailand simply has that thing which attracts a lot of rejects from all walks of life. and they have to somehow survive as well.

and there are others who do have no other choice than teaching here. they have families, they can't simply go back home. they do what they can to survive here in an as honest as possible way (and maybe by getting a fake degree but still teaching to the best of their abilities).

i don't really see them doing much harm in some low paid beginner's level english communication classes, 'coz that's the most they get as jobs.

 

 

 

>>>Did any of your ESL teachers in Germany buy a degree so they could stay in germany and do a job they never considered doing before back in their homeland??<<<

 

of course not. but more than a few spoke lousy english (which i could see already then as my mum has lived in britain for 10 years and spoke perfect english without any german accent at all).

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