New Zoning/Early Closure Thread

[Guest]

Just my take on this so far......I think too early to tell what the finalized rules will be, and after that, to what degree they will be enforced, and where. It's an obvious death knell to any establishment only allowed to open 3-4 hours per day.

 

If rules (law) allow for growth in the 3 designated area's, (actually not much room in Patpong, but certainly in the other two area's), then it will simply come down to a transference of S/C and Nana Plaza crowds, to those area's. An inconvenience, but not overly devastating in the long run (at least to the punters). Business owners are a different story.

 

I think the big question is how Pattaya, and other tourist destinations will be effected, through new zoning and hours, if at all. Another big ? is how they will determine restaurant, from disco, from go-go bar, from pub, from beer bar, etc. It all seems very muddy to me right now.

 

I can't help but think they have some sort of master plan, but don't want to spill it all out at once, for many reasons. For sure, they would like to clean up their image, but don't relish the lost of income they enjoy from partying tourist, and the severe loss of jobs to many 1,000's of Thai's, as a result. By recongnizing certain Entertainment area's, they are clearly not trying to stamp it out. I would seem to me they are simply trying to contain in area's they have deemed best for them, for whatever reason.

 

If the objective was to eliminate the sex tourist, that could very easily be done with one clean sweep....No Entertainment Districts.....No go-go's.....etc. Period. It's not their intent, but it is clear they do want to realign things, to meet whatever needs they think they have, to suit their agenda.

 

If Pattaya/Phuket is relatively untouched by all of this, the message is clear. SEX TOURIST'S GO THERE. They know that will be the result, because partyer's will go where the party is. They are not that stupid. Of course, BKK is a city of 6-10 million, so know they have to leave some doors open for some, but in a more controled environment than exists for them now.

 

This is just mere speculation on my part, but I think the powers that be do have a master plan. They tested the waters with earlier closing times, and are now advancing, to their altimate goal, whatever that might be.

 

But this whole undertaking is enourmous for them. If applied to the letter, nation wide, it will affect 10's of thousands of businesses. And many more employee's. The implications are astounding, reaching to foriegn investment, increased crime rate, Thai national unemployment,.....the list goes on forever.

 

I'm just rambling here, but maybe the powers that be do have a defined goal. What better way to understand what kind of resistance you will incur from all sectors, than by releasing all kinds of different rumour senarios, and then watching the resultant backlash. If I were on top of the hill, and wanted drastic change, but needed to know what the resultant rebelion would be, how might I go about that? I'd do exactly what is being done now.

 

In the end, I think things will brought to bear what they can accomplish in their plan, as is prescribed by the resistance that they meet, and the virousity of those other powers.

 

I'm just talk'in out loud ......HT

[Guest]

You may well be right, you are talking about the farang/tourist market, but don't forget the main reason behind this social order drive is to deal with Thai underage drinking, drugs etc. It also is a very confusing picture for a master plan and I believe it will undergo further manipulation before a final, long term situation is settled.

[Guest]

Why if the Thai govt has introduced the 10pm curfew to crackdown on thai underage drinking, drug etc do they also need the zoning laws? One or the other would be sufficient? Totally agree with your talkin out loud highthaied

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Received this from Matt (owner of Angelwitch) and am posting this here with his permission.

 

Sanuk!

 

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On a serious note.

 

We're all very concerned about what will be going on in the nightlife industry in Thailand soon. Though there still being a lot of confusion about exactly what and where and when, it looks like we'll be allowed to be open from 9 - 12 p.m. (other sources say 6 - 12 p.m. - let's hope for the better) in Nana and Cowboy. This is a death sentence.

 

Yesterday, The Nation pointed out in an ad at the end of their article "Death Knell" (in German "Die Totenglocken"):

'We want your opinion. Is early closing fair? Send your comments to letters@nationgroup.com "

 

I think as many of us as possible should take 15 minutes and give them our opinion. I just did it in a not exactly short letter. We have to stand up for what we like and we need a forum where we can express our thoughts, comments, concerns and worries. Please be very polite and strict about it.

 

Any other places to express our opinions with a chance to be heard? Please let us know.

 

Thanx a lot.

Hope to be there for you in the future.

Matt, ANGELWITCH

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[BelgianBoy]

KS,

 

I fully understand and appreciate that Mark wants more letters to the Nation, but in my humble opinion that would be like a fly pissing in the sea.........

 

Like pointed out earlier, it is not implemented yet, nor does anyone knows exactly what will happen.

 

Cheers !

[Guest]

BelgianBoy said:

KS,

 

I fully understand and appreciate that Mark wants more letters to the Nation, but in my humble opinion that would be like a fly pissing in the sea.........

 

Like pointed out earlier, it is not implemented yet, nor does anyone knows exactly what will happen.

 

Cheers !

 

I agree, but its easy to do and is better than not doing anything at all. At the very least this would give some publicity to the foreigners/tourist point of view. Im writing my comment and I suggest we all write a couple of lines. However when all things are said and done, the reality of the new rules will be brought to fruition not by the media but by what effect they are having on the ground (i.e: job losses, more crime?, new areas of deprivation etc etc???)

[BlazingStarz]

There is actually a poll right at the bottom of the nations homepage. Scores so far

 

 

New poll posted every Friday

Your re-action on the government's mid-night closing laws on the entertainment industry:

 

Great ! Now I can sleep peacefully at night. 36%

Hmm...now where can I go after midnight? 4%

What !?! This is ridiculous!!! 60%

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com

[pro2000]

i thought i read somewhere that go gos and bars etc would be open early someone in the government said people would have to start their night out a few hours earlier to adjust to the new closing time (i might be wrong but i think it was on this board somewhere)

[Guest]

I applaud Showtime?s bravado, but I think High Thaied and the owner of AngelWitch are closer to the mark. First, High Thaied:

If rules (law) allow for growth in the 3 designated area's, (actually not much room in Patpong, but certainly in the other two area's), then it will simply come down to a transference of S/C and Nana Plaza crowds, to those area's. An inconvenience, but not overly devastating in the long run (at least to the punters). Business owners are a different story.

The owner of AngelWitch, Matt, seems to have it exactly right:

Though there still being a lot of confusion about exactly what and where and when, it looks like we'll be allowed to be open from 9 - 12 p.m. (other sources say 6 - 12 p.m. - let's hope for the better) in Nana and Cowboy. This is a death sentence.

It is hard to argue with any of this. How are bars going to survive on 3 hours a night?

 

On the other hand there is a great deal of confusion surrounding what the rules will be, and it is possible that Sukhumvit will be declared an entertainment zone. But if it is not, and the bars are only allowed to open for 3 hours, Matt is exactly right ? it?s a death sentence.

 

From Showtime:

Too many Expats live on Sukhumvit and more are coming in all the time. The relocation firms that work with the Mult-national firms are very busy. USD75 billion is being created by KhunThakin with his projects and Thai exports keep expanding even with the Bird Flu. We feel the good times are here till 2008. Controversial... yes. But thats our opinion.

?More [expats] are coming all of the time? I can think of several things right off the top of my head that suggest this is not true.

 

First, CB Richard Ellis (real estate brokerage) reports that there is an excess of serviced apartments in the Sukhumvit area and the rental market is getting very soft. When ex pats first arrive (I am talking about high income package ex pats), they almost always live in serviced apartments. Although condos are hot and condo buildings are going up, I can?t think of any new high end serviced apartments on Sukhumvit. If these type of expats are coming, where are they staying?

 

Second, I had drinks with a senior person at Transpo, a big moving company, recently. They?re desperate for business, and thought we might be bringing in ex-pats in. We aren?t. We can?t ? the new policies on issuing work permit s make it virtually impossible for us to add to our diminishing ex-pat staff.

 

Third, foreign direct investment is way down in Thailand. No one disputes that. We can argue about the merits and sustainability of measures the government has employed to grow the economy (e.g., easy consumer credit, government spending, etc.), but no one ? least of all the Thai government ? claims that it has been fueled by increased foreign investment.

 

And if Stickman?s lawyers are right, it doesn?t augur well for the ploys some of us (including me) have put forward for repackaging the bars as restaurants in the Sukhumvit area.

 

This is bad for businesses, but as High Thaied, several others and I have pointed out, this doesn't mean the end of the nitery business in Thailand. Showtime:

Where will everybody go if its midnight closing? Will they stop coming to Thailand? Go to Singapore where prices are double? Go to Cambodia where the infrastructure is not the same and crime is much higher? I can't come up with one place that competes with Thailand on price and atmosphere. Perhaps PI but you still have the crime rate much higher and dop the girls compare?

?Where will everybody go if its midnight closing?? I think we have already answered that ? Patpong or one of the other two entertainment zones. This is not about tourist going to Cambodia instead of Thailand. It is about tourists in Thailand going to Patpong, one of the other two entertainment zones in Bangkok or, say, Pattaya, instead of the entertainment venues in Sukhumvit.

 

I admire Showtime?s bravado, and hope that he is right and I am wrong. But I wouldn?t put any money on it.

[Guest]

I have a few suggestions on what I think are good points to raise:

 

First, I would not mention Nana - you will not get any sympathy. Nana = low brow Farangs and low class Thai woman. This is not true, but don't even try to fight the stereotype. Instead refer only to pubs and clubs in the Sukhuvmit area.

 

Second, in referring to pubs and clubs in the Sukhumvit area, mention specific bars that carter to upscale tourits and couples will be closed if the new rules are enforce. Think of Bulls Head, Q Bar, the Irish Bars, nice pubs. There are more couple friendly venues in Sukhumvit than there are in Patpong - make that point by talking about those businesses.

 

Third, pose the rhetorical question: how are these couple oriented clubs and pubs going to survive if they are only allowed to operate for 3 hours?

 

Fourth, what about the employees of these places? What about restaurants in Sukhumvit and the Thais they employ?

 

Fifth and finally, point out that the new rules protect the sex and teenage venues, but will put the nice couple oriented pubs and bars out of business. Ask why the government is implimenting a policy that favors sex oriented bars at the expense of couple oriented tourist bars.

 

And then let the reader draw his or own conclusions about the wisdom of these new regulations.