Guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 old hippie-- good idea! here we go! --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 O.k. I'll start!@#$%!^& !! Lousy managers, low salaries, poor treatment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyinEwa/Perv Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Aloha, UPSer, did you make this one for me? Just kidding. This thread might get bigger than the Pop your Cherry Here thread in the Board Bar. Glad I got in early. Where to begin.........I don't think I have enough time to put em all down. I leave for Bangkok in 69 days. Wouldn't finish up by then. So, I will just sit back and let eveyone else take their shots. Happy hunting, all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Troy / Hippie-- I thought that the two of you would appreciate this one.. My good college friend is having a "disagreement" with UA over damage to his luggage.. My friend is claming that UA damaged his luggage (a hard sided, no-wheel Samsonite bag) on his flight LHR-ORD-SEA.. UA is saying that the so-called damage is a part of "normal wear and tear" and they will not honor a claim for his damages.. My friend called me from the airport and told me this story. I came over to the airport (as I was not very far away) and saw that his bag was indeed damaged.. the corner had been cracked open sich that you could see the inside contents of the bag and the frame was bent so that you could not secure the bag shut. I approached the station manager (not the main line clerk, but station manager) and asked how he figured that the damage was "routine". He stated that "sometimes bags get damaged and we can't be liable for every little crack that occurs".. I asked him if he was sure that he wanted to stick with that position. He said yes. I asked if he would note the damage. He said since their was no claim, he would not and refused. I called the airport police to the counter. Under normal circumstances a uniformed Airpoty Police Officer would arrive, but this time it was a US Customs Police Offier. I told him that we needed a witness to verify damages and that UA is refusing to do so. He said that the Customs could not "force" UA to do anything. I said that I only needed to him no note that fact there was damage and was not asking for anything more from him. He agreed. He took my friends ID down, he wrote down a complete and detailed damage of the bag. He then asked the UA station manager for his ID. The manager at first refused, saying that UA was not liable. The Customs officer told him that if he failed to cooperate that he would be "taken into custody for interference with the federal police officer", of course he showed his WA drivers license. He wrote down all the details. Copies of the report were given to both the station manger and my friend and the officer left. My friend sent this report overnight to UA's luggage office WHQLL and got an immediate phone call late the next afternoon. UA acknowledged all the damages, offered to pay for the repairs in full or (if it exceeded US$300) to give him a new suitcase from their internal supply. He also got a travel credit of $250 for the "incident". All good? not yet. What about the station manager. Two days later my friend gets a phone call at his office from the station manager. He is wanting to apologize and make ammends. Being cordial, my friend accepts his apology and all is good. The lesson here... sometimes you just have to keep pushing until you find the person who has the right attitude to get the job done.. Usually it is a front line employee. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyinEwa/Perv Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Aloha, UPSer.....I would have to disagree with the way this was handled by both parties. First, if the bag was indeed damaged this badly, then UA was very wrong in not accepting responsibility for their actions. And second, bringing in law enforcement, even worse, federal, to deal with a damaged bag is silly. To threaten the manager or any employee with arrest because they feel they are doing their job, whether they are right or not, is out of line. Where is the line drawn? If you refuse to sit someone in an exit because you feel they are unqualified, can you then be sued? If you deny boarding to someone because you feel they are drunk, do you face jail time? I mean, there has to be some judgement left up to employees and if as a customer you feel they are wrong, you write your letter to customer service and they end up giving you the store anyway. Sorry bout the vent but just think this was handled the wrong way. 68 days till liftoff!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Troy-- I think you missed the point.. The Customs officer was called only to verify that there was some sort of damage.. This was done because the UA Station Mangager refused to even note (without an admission of liability) that there was some type of damage... As we both know, had my friend left the airport then LATER tried to make a claim against United, UA (as all airlines) would have said that he was required to make a claim BEFORE leaving the airport and that claims "after the fact" are not possible (except for concealed damages).. So, our only purpose was to get an accurate "record" of the incident. The Customs officer did mention several times to both parties that he could not force any action by UA and he would only make a note "what I see here, without judgement" As far the the "threat of arrest" goes.. that came into play only when the Station Manager refused to provide the Customs Officer with a simple identification. I fail to see why any person would not readily cooperate with this request. All my friend wanted was for the Station Manager to at least recognize that there was some type of damage, irregardless if UA was going to pay or not was a seperate issue at that time. The Station Manager told my friend that he could write to UA in Chicago if he wanted to see if they would pay, but that he (in Seattle) was not going to honor any claim. That was fine by my friend, who replied that how could he very well file a legitimate and documented claim if no verifiable records exsisted?... So, I think that while the outward apprearance was one of a "power struggle" I think that this was an unfortunate, but acceptable move on my friends part. Incidentially, the UA supervisor who called from Chicago did say that UA is supposed to document "any damage claims that may arise, but that the mere documenting of a claim by a passenger, does not in any way guarantee payment or compensation by United untill we establish that the damage exceeds our assumed guidelines" --UPSer PS: Do I think that airline employees should be threatened with arrest for "doing their jobs"? obviously not. However, I see no reason that any employee would not be willing to provide simple documentation. If a passenger asks you for your name what's the big deal with that? 'd call it accountability. We all know that generally when a passenger asks for your name that a complaint is coming, but to refuse only makes the matter worse. Afterall if you are truly in the "right" the passengers claim should fall on so-called deaf ears with no ramifications for you. [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: UPSer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyinEwa/Perv Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Aloha, UPSer, this would be a great one to discuss over an ice cold one. Hard to disagree with such a well informed individual. However, here goes. I'll try to address each of your concerns and hopefully I will agree with most of them. You say that if your friend would have left and then come back, UA would deny the claim based on that alone. I could be wrong but if I remember correctly, the airline I work for allows 45 days for claims for international travel. How about UA? The threat of arrest came after the station manager refused initially to give his ID. I am not required to give my ID to any passenger. I am required only to give my first name if asked. I can decline to give my last name. I know you will say the ID was asked for by LEO. I will reiterate my disagreement that they were brought in, for witness purposes or otherwise. If he was there for witnessing damage only and after he did that, he should have been thanked and it should have then been your friend and the manager. You are correct in that fact that claims are to be accepted even if it is "normal wear and tear". I whole heartedly disagree with this policy as the paperwork generated is a waste of time. Basically that is saying that the agent is not capable of making a decision whether or not this is minor or major damage. Any doofus should be able to tell if the damage is a small scuff or a cracked corner and bent frame, which in my opinion is NOT normal wear and tear. (Stupid manager) That covers most of what you talked about. I see your point that your friend really had no other recourse as he was about to be screwed out of a bag. That is bad customer service and the cost of repairing the bag or even giving him a brand new one is obviously worth giving him in exchange for his past and future business. It just makes sense. Sure do hope we can sit down in Feb somewhere in a nice bar in Bangkok and swap stories. Should be fun. [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: TroyinEwa1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Troy-- Yeah.. this would be good one for a long cold beer (or conversly a short hot girl, your choice).. Did this situation get blown out of proportion? Most likely.. The issue was not "we want to know who the Station Manger is".. in fact, we never asked for his name. All we wanted was for him (or any other employee) to simply note what they saw.. no admissions or anything, just record the facts.. [Now, after the fact, we have his full name, address, drivers license, etc] Yes, UA does have a form for recording damages (CA-151) which states ".. all claims for damage must be made before leaving aiport premises..." This is where my friend was coming from.. He wasn't trying to argue with the Station Manager about the claim.. it was clear he wasn't going to honor it.. But he (the manager) said that my friend could send the claim to their World Headquarters if he liked.. My friend then pointed out that for him to do so, he needed some sort of "record" of the damage.. This is the point from which the LEO comes into play. The Customs Officer is there only to simply record facts, not to pass judgement or assign liability. Let's be honest, do you really think that my friends claim would be as "strong" had he not presented a police report from a Customs Officer? Obviously not.. In a perfect world should that matter? no..... but we all know that the real answer is yes, it did have a difference in the final outcome. Why? because all airlines (rightfully so) scrutinize all claims for "damage" as the possibility for false or inflated claims exsists.. The mere fact that a Federal Law Enforcement Officer (in his official capacity) swears to seeing XXX damages removes (for the most part) any possibility of fraud on the claim... Further, we both know that had my friend simply made notes or took a photo and sent that with his claim the question of "why did you not report this to us in Seattle?" would have come up. At this point it kind of becomes a "he said, she said" issue.. How does US know (for fact) that: #1) this is the real suitcase used? #2) this damage did not exsist earlier? #3) the passenger did not damage the bag himself? Sounds crazy, but after working in UPS claims for a very short stint, I've seen some really weird behavior/actions all to get a few bucks from a "deep pockets".. So I don't blame the airlines for having such rules.. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Hey, I thought this was a Thread for airline workers to bitch about our jobs/lives...? I am sure there are a few of us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Old hippie -- We've just been keeping the thread warm for you.. --UPSer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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