ABCinBK Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 SanukDee, She keeps her maiden name in LOS and in the USA. A lot of women do this nowadays, and I don't think it will cause any issues with the US INS. The only place she's used the married name is for my health insurance provider, thru an ex-employer. The health provider preferred this, to show the relationship. They explained it didn't matter what her legally registered last name was, and that as long as we were legally married (in the USA) they tended to show the husband's last name in their internal systems. As for having two names, the maiden vs. the married name, at once WITHIN the USA, it is legal in the following situation. In some states, like the one I live in, people often just change their last names on bank accounts, health insurance, etc. when they get married. While you are supposed to register the name change it often doesn't happen. But if you then check the credit agencies, banks, etc. that keep your names, you now have two names/aliases. I would tend to call this having two last names via reporting agencies (credit card, bank, and credit reporting agency systems). That is of coarse a far different thing from keeping two passports (both Thai or USA, etc) or two drivers licenses or two totally differnt sets of identity documents all within the same country (Thai or USA), that would be something I have never looked into. You would want to look into if it's legal to have multiple names/aliases at once. The laws in the USA and Thailand for this would likely be different. As for having one last name in LOS and another in the USA, it's two different countries, two different sets of records, and people do it all the time to preserve their full property ownership and business control rights in LOS. You could chose to make the Thai govt. fully aware of the marriage, but under current rules it can only penalize the Thai in the marriage. In my wife's case, she has the same last name (her maiden name) in both countries (with the exception of her health insurance, as explained above). ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 Hi, here in Samui, I know a few guys who married their GF in Thailand incl. myself, and all girls have changed their names according to Thai law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukdee Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I see a problem, for example, when she becomes a dual citizen. If she enters and leaves Thailand using her Thai passport the airline ticket needs to match her name. So when she returns to USA she needs to enter using her American passport. And when she goes through immigration they check the passport and airline ticket and the names don't match. Maybe no big deal? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 under current rules it can only penalize the Thai in the marriage This is not true for most. Although there may be some business type reason affecting a very small percentage of people the old 'wife can't keep her house' (which was never true) or 'wife can't buy property' (which has been corrected) are not an issue. My wife has the same vote, the same government insurance, the same same same with my last name. Having a foreign last name is not a social disease here at all. Why is it we think it must be better to avoid the legal route in these matters? :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 SanukDee, Is it really? This is the way it was before all the recent airline regulations and security measures changes (due to terrorism). This info. was provided thru acquantences when I was looking into the name change and whether to register any marriage in LOS. A dual citizen (USA and Thai) would book a ticket with the married name in the USA and would board the plane and leave the USA with the US Passport. She would land and check into Don Maung with the Thai passport. She would leave LOS with the Thai passport. She would land in the USA with the US Passport. To avoid any problems, if anyone asks, you just bring a copy of your US marriage certificate. In the worse case scenario, a Thai official might tell her she must change the name on her Thai passport as soon as possible. As I mentioned though, my wife uses her maiden name both in the States and in LOS. When she is a dual citizen, she will hae the same name on both passports anyways. The biggest issue is whether to register the marriage in LOS. Yes, Thai law says you must. As of now, many people don't follow Thai law, including many Thais who marry ceremonially but never register the marriage. I suppose they can always argue they chose a ritual marriage but never underwent a legal marriage. In the case of farangs who married only outside of LOS, is the Thai govt. going to check a Thai national to see if she married in some Western nation? It's doubtful in the past and current environment. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 lopburi, This issue came up a while back on this board or the Thai Falang board, from my recollection. The law was changed to allow a certain amount of land, but unless something changed again, that amount of land is still less than a Thai not married to a foreigner. Farthermore, the foreigner must sign off stating it is not his income/assets that are going towards buying the land. You can see the purpose is to attempt to prevent foreign ownership of land. Many guys chose to register the marriage, only to attempt circumvention of the purpose of the land restrictions, by signing an affadavit stating the funds his wife is buying land with is not his money. It's ironic, because in so many cases these guys are following the law in registering the marriage, but lying in saying the funds are not theirs. In many cases, it is. If you look at the intent of the laws, they are meant to prevent individual foreigners from easily acquiring land or business interests. The exceptions are if you wish to invest large amounts of funds in Thailand, either as an individual or via a company. The easiest way around it, given the current environment, is to not get married in LOS. That is exactly what I chose to do. Farthermore, at the time I got married in the USA, the visa process was faster for a fiance than for a spouse an American married overseas. I suppose the difference is between a foreigner living overseas and a foreigner chosing to live in LOS and wishing to fit into the Thai nation. I would guess many expats living in LOS would want their marriages registered, to let all the other Thais know, to make sure his wife knows he is serious, and to ensure there are no hidden husbands or future husbands. When you live overseas, you tell your wife you are serious by marring in farangland. As for hidden husbands, it's not like the Thais always register their marriages. When the locals don't always follow the law, your following it does not provide you safety neccessarily. Now, given the reasons for the restrictions on foreign land ownership and what was done to attempt to prevent a foreigner from controlling land via his wife, there may be certain restrictions on a Thai national attempting to do business in LOS, given she is married to a foreigner too. I do know there are significant restrictions on what foreigners can do and own in LOS, but I would be interested to know what restrictions would be placed on a Thai when she is married to a foreigner, in respect to Thai based business ownership and control? Lastly, do I really want any Thai able to look up public records (in LOS) to know my wife is married to a rich foreigner, thus farther declaring she is a target for those seeking money? It is one thing when those in her family, village, and circle of friends know, but it is another thing to be on the records search of those (either ethical or not) seeking to target those with connections to foreigners' assets. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 You can see the purpose is to attempt to prevent foreign ownership of land This IS the law. But it has nothing at all to do with her having your last name. She will own the property period whatever her last name is. If you are legal you say you understand this by signing a document. If not you don't have any claim anyhow.As for public records - records here are not made public. That family will know she is rich and an easy touch if her last name is yours suspect that anyone going to use that already knows. As for amount of land have heard of no limit. When the question of foreign ownership comes up it is linked to such a limit but do not believe this regulation instructing Land Registration Office to register land to women with foreign husbands has any. Getting married in the US was a valid time issue but not making the name change is not. But you have given your reasons. I just don't agree with them, as you don't agree with mine. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 lopburi, You need to look and read over the land ownership laws in Thailand. There IS a restriction for those married to foreigners, plain and simple. And the signing off by the foreigner is meant for the purpose to preventing foreigners from owning land. The guys who sign off are essentially lying when they say it is not their money.....of coarse no one would have a problem with that, as they are basically now giving money to Thailand. So I continue to ask, why do guys some bent to following Thai law in registering their marriage find it acceptable to lie about the source of their wives' funds for buying the limited amount of land they are allowed to own? In any case, the enforcement of how much land a Thai married to a foreigner can own is enforced as heavily as registering the marriage in Thailand......generally, it is not enforced, and I would guess in the times it is enforced, the police and authorities are somehow "motivated" by money. Information on the land restrictions would be officially at the Thai government offices. You can find them on some Delphi websites such as the Thai-Falang board, Nanapong, and the StickmanBangkok website under living in Thailand. You could very well be correct on the Thai records not being public, however, they are certainly not very private or protected either. Again, this is Thailand and laws are always so enforced, as I assume you know as an expat. From personal experience, how many guys have accessed the public records of their girlfriends or wives via private detectives? You read about it all the time on different boards dedicated to those frequenting the Thai farang barscene, and I certainly know of people who have done it. In the end, I respect your viewpoint. But the law is not so sure in Thailand as it is in the West, and I am not commenting on the stability of law enforcement in the West here, only on it being "relatively more consistent". This is definitely true in regards to the requirements for registering marriages. Last point, there is no "requirement" to change your last name in the USA after you marry. The requirement is to register the marriage if it is to be legal. Obviously we did this, as without doing so, my wife would not have been able to stay after entering on a K-1 visa. We will marry in a church in the USA as well, but to keep it all US based, there are no plans to marry in Thailand. I'll do that in a Thai temple Stateside before I ever do so in Issaan, providing any kind of possible impetus to register a marriage that will only restrict my wife's property rights to ownership in the future. The only reason to register a marriage in Thailand, beyond the debate over registering a marriage in Thailand, is to show her friends/family and to somehow preserve your legal spot as husband in the Thai legal system. Her friends and family have considered us married for a while, and a nice expensive US wedding will demonstrate it as well as an Issaan wedding. This last statement of coarse varies by the couple and what they want. As for being the legal husband in Thailand, if a guy can't be sure of his position with his wife than registration isn't going to protect him anyways. We all know there are tons of unregistered marriages in Thailand, and the true husband (vs. customer, walking ATM, etc.) is not determined by who is legally married to her in some government document. It is in a woman's heart. That is why my wife wants a US based church wedding. She knows me and understands that for me, an Issaan wedding isn't something I would hold as binding. I like Thailand and the Thais, and I try to understand them. But I am not Thai and my values are not Thai. ABC ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Says ABCinBK: lopburi, You need to look and read over the land ownership laws in Thailand. There IS a restriction for those married to foreigners, plain and simple. And the signing off by the foreigner is meant for the purpose to preventing foreigners from owning land. The guys who sign off are essentially lying when they say it is not their money ABC There is no restriction on where the money originates! Only that there is no other legal claim to it. He gives it to his wife and signs that he has no legal claim to. It is hers now and if they split up, to bad for him. No deception, and conforms to the law. And I still have yet to see any reference to a limitation on the amount of land she can purchase if married to a foreigner. As long as the foreigner has no claim to the money she can buy up the whole friggin tamboon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 flashermac, Is the amount of land (for a Thai woman married to a foreigner) still restricted? I found the following on a website concerning the updated Thai property laws. See below. The last paragraph is what's important. ABC ==================== 1. Thai Land Law: Under Sec. 86 of the Thai Land Law, a foreigner may own land in Thailand only if permitted by treaty. In fact, Thailand does not have a treaty with any country permitting foreigners from that country to own land. Therefore, foreigners are effectively prohibited from owning land in Thailand. Under Sec. 97 of the Land Law, the definition of a foreigner includes Thai registered companies or partnerships in which more than 49% of the capital is owned by foreigners or of which more than half the shareholders or partners are foreigners. As a practical matter, it is often difficult for a Thai company with foreigners having substantial minority ownership (e.g., 51% Thai, 49% foreign) to acquire land in Thailand. The policies of Land Offices vary throughout Thailand, but often they require that Thais own at least 60% or 70% of a company in order to register land ownership. Under former Land Office policy, Thai nationals who married foreigners were prohibited from ownership of land in Thailand. This prohibition was based on principles of community property law and a general presumption that the Thai spouse was holding the land for the benefit of the foreigner. However, under current Land Office policy the Thai spouse can own land in Thailand, provided that the foreign spouse signs a letter declaring the property to be the separate property of the Thai spouse and waiving any interest in the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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