Is it Really Worth Making a Trip to Bangkok Now?

[Nervous_Dog]

Dam it Suadam, I am trying to eg him on and let everyone know its all gone to hell and we should all leave! Play along man and agree with Gadfly even if he is the most mis-informed person on the board

 

DOG - Damm - OOPS - I meant to PM that, now everyone will know th etruth!

[Guest]

Closing go go bars and discos early is the only big drawback IMO, the other stuff is too isolated to put a dent in tourism (and the bombs in bkk are just speculation so far).

 

In the eyes of new (and repeat) tourists coming from big cities, early closings will make LOS seem like some paternalistic village where the population is too irresponsible to be allowed decide when to go home. Younger tourists, the ones who could repeat their visits for many years to come, like to party until late on their vacations. They will not be impressed with thailand, and the idea of closing a disco early will seem thoroughly stupid. Because it is

I agree that the early closing times are the biggest problem. I hadn't thought about the importance of this to younger tourists before, but I think you have a point.

 

I also agree that unless something really bad (read Bali) happens at a major tourist venue, the early closing times will cause the most harm to Thailand's tourism industry. It is also the strangest one since I don't see the link between (a) early closing times and ( any social problem the government is trying to solve. It really is a nonsensical policy, and it is one where the government may soon impliment even stricter rules.

 

Showing and shows are obviously a concern to people on this board since you see questions here about it all the time. But this board is also weighted toward people with an interest in shows (Bangkok go go bars are just not the same without them) while early closing times will annoy a broader range of tourists. And although I don't think shows cause or contribute to any social problem, I appreciate that there is a face issue here.

 

If the urine and passport checks become more pervasive, it won't be an isolated irritant to tourists. There is an election in February of next year, and the government has launched a new war on drugs. If the ruling party concludes that dramatic raids will get them more votes, I think urine and passport checks will become more pervasive. I am not saying this will necessarily happen; I am saying it could easily happen.

 

But then things could go the other way as well. Although I don't think much of Chuwit, he got more votes than most people expected. If there is a shift to capture those votes, we could see a reversal of the new social order policies. I am rooting for this to happen, but not convinced that it will.

[Zorro]

It is anybody's guess what will happen next in the early closing saga but one thing is for sure and that is nothing would surprise.

If the situation in the south re policy making is any guide then it seems policy is not very well thought out.

We should also add the chicken virus scare as well to recent policy fiascos.

Let's also not forget the state sponsored assassination of 'drug dealers'.

More and more Thailand has shown itself as a third world backwater country with some of the recent policy making.

As far as the nightlife crackdown goes for me the most disturbing aspect of all of this is the victimisation of tourists via drug testing and dubious passport checks.

Closing an hour early and no showing of flesh in gogos is not going to really make much of a difference to many people i believe.

But harrassment of tourists is another matter all together.

Being slammed up for not having your passport on you will leave a sour taste in the mouths of most holiday makers as would standing in line for hours late at night waiting to piss in a little cup.

It almost seems that this govt wants to rid the country of tourists!

[Guest]

Gadfly, I think people do not like what you have to say, except for possibly myself.

 

I have been in other cities were fun was the night of the game. Each and every one of them fell. 4 in all.

 

The last one was taxing on some. Some did not realize that the hammer had fallen and many were arrested. Virtually none of them knew that the game had changed. It probably would have been nice if somebody (like Gadfly) had proved a few clues.

 

In one place, I left about 5 minutes before everybody got arrested. Interesting, one of the women that was arrested; part of her sentence was she could never return to that city again.

 

Some do not believe things are changing, but I do not hear them ordering drinks at Nana at 3:00 AM any more? Nor do I see them watching naked ladies there any more. Things change. Better to get caught with your pants on, then off.

 

Sometimes it paysnot to be clueless.

[kamui]

Gadfly1 said:

Closing go go bars and discos early is the only big drawback IMO, the other stuff is too isolated to put a dent in tourism (and the bombs in bkk are just speculation so far).

 

In the eyes of new (and repeat) tourists coming from big cities, early closings will make LOS seem like some paternalistic village where the population is too irresponsible to be allowed decide when to go home. Younger tourists, the ones who could repeat their visits for many years to come, like to party until late on their vacations. They will not be impressed with thailand, and the idea of closing a disco early will seem thoroughly stupid. Because it is

I agree that the early closing times are the biggest problem. I hadn't thought about the importance of this to younger tourists before, but I think you have a point.

 

 

What T. and TAT might not see is that the backpackers who are sometimes degraded on this and other boards as being cheap charlies and ignorants are actually the group of people with higher degrees and much more interest in foreign countries than their common countrymen. Even if they live on the cheap and don't get in deeper contact with the locals and their culture, this are the people who will very likely return as "quality tourists" with their families and a lot of money at hand Mr. T. is so desperately waiting for. Which means: if Thailand is going to loose it's appeal as a party place this guys and girls will go elsewhere in Asia, Europe or South America. This means a loss of income now and as far as I know this can be directly linked to a loss of income in the future.

[Guest]

Thanks. I am actually an optomist fundamentally, and really hope that things change for the better - and soon. But we do need to be honest about the current situation. Here is how Stickman sums up the situation on his site:

After what seemed to be the start of a major crackdown in Pattaya, many gogo bars down in the city of sin are still open till 2 AM. They just turn their lights out outside, but inside the music keeps on a rocking! The police don't seem to want to enforce the 1 AM shutdown with any great fervour. Still, some days the bars in Walking Street and Soi Pattayaland are being forced to close at 1 AM. Closing times are a bit of a lottery at the moment in Pattaya.

 

Bangkok bars are still being closed at 1:00 AM or a little after with no real change in what has been happening for the past month, and what we can now only presume is how it will be from now on.

 

And down in Phuket where the great strike took place, they did get the virtually 100% closure rate for bars that they had been hoping for. However, some rather resourceful young lasses were hanging out at guesthouses and restaurants offering themselves to those who liked like they wanted their itch scratched. The governor has provisionally allowed the bars in Patong, Karon and Kata to open until 2 AM and is going to lobby the government to get it extended until 3 AM, arguing that it is a tourist resort and is thus appropriate. But with all of the commotion in the south recently, I wonder if that will be used as an excuse to sideline it?

Nervous Dog & Suadum - I think you have to agree that I am not the only one who has noticed a change.

[thalenoi]

Hi all, my comment is this country is loosing it.

 

I come here since 1990 and now live here for 3 years.

Luckily enough I quit the nightlife and live in a remote place.

I would not envy anyone coming to Bangkok for sanuk.

The leaders of this country are doing their best to piss-off those wo come here for "pleasure"

 

Doubling the numbers of tourist won't happen, I would rather see them getting down in the next 5 years.

 

And Bangkok is not Thailand, there is more to this country than this ugly big city.

[bibblies]

I've got to say that, despite buying a ticket myself, I discourage everyone else I can (mostly normal people: from visiting Thailand these days, citing closing times, etc. The sooner tourist numbers start to fall and the voters start to notice the knock-on effects, the sooner they can get this guy out.

[Dali]

And that is exactly why I will skip by Bangkok entirely and head straight to other LOS destinations on my next trip. Without the nightlife, not much reason to put up with the traffic, air pollution, noise, etc.

[WarHammer]

Gadfly, my observation is that your posts are consistantly depressing and pessimistic. I'm not necessarily complaining - your calling things as you see them and all points of view are important, but I just get the feeling your a "glass half empty" kind of guy on this issue of Thailand's nightlife.

 

I will be in Thailand at the end of this week and will spend some time in BKK and Pattaya so I will be able to see for myself what the situation on the ground is, but I have a hunch I will find things not nearly so bad as you describe.

 

Gadfly said -

"but if you want a vibrant and interesting nightlife ? something that Bangkok was starting to develop before the crackdown - you won?t find it here now."

 

Are you just comparing the nightlife now to the recent past? I thought I'd read rather consistantly that Thailands nightlife of the past (such as in the 70's and 80's) was nowhere near as in-your-face as it is even today.

 

Are the bars really no fun now because they have to close at 1AM? Really? I mean, if you start out at 8PM you can still spend 5 hours hitting bars and clubs. I mean, I understand its not as good as staying out all night, but is it really so bad that it makes BKK nightlife not worth coming for?

 

Speaking only for myself, the no showing is just not a factor. The girls in go-go's still wear bikini's and sexy outfits of one kind or another right? I mean, do you really think that the fact that they can't be butt naked ruins the bar atmosphere? I suppose many people might agree, but I just can't see how "no showing" wrecks the nightlife. So back many years ago when showing was not the norm was the nightlife in BKK not worth coming for?

 

Gadfly said -

"Some argue that it is unlikely to happen to an individual tourist on a holiday in Bangkok, and I am sure they are right that the odds are less than 50%."

 

Don't you think the odds are really far, far, far less than 50%. Based on my reading of the various forums, it appears to me that my odds of getting piss tested or harrassed for my passport are slim to almost none. Yeah, it happens, and it would piss me off as well, but at this time the odds are just not that great that an individual will get caught up in something like that. It irritates me that I will have to carry my passport now, but I can't see how it will wreck the nightlife.

 

Gadfly said -

"Terrorist Tension. A punter died at beer bar in the far south yesterday. Nothing has happened in Bangkok yet, but after what happened earlier this week, and knowing how angry people are in the South, I don?t feel entirely comfortable now in any of the nightlife venues. I am sure there are others who will say they don?t give it a second thought. But knowing how tense things are here now, and that it will probably get worse, a dark pall has been cast over the nightlife scene."

 

I have not read any other post on any forum that suggests a dark pall has been cast over the nightlife scene. Speaking only for myself, this is not something I worry about at this time. It seems to me that Islamic violence is mostly contained in the deep south of the Kingdom. If I were worried about Muslim terrorism, I wouldnt be able to go to many, many destinations (to include places right here in the USA where I live).

 

Gadfly said -

"but when I look at all the other changes that have occurrred over the past year or so and then factor in how truly bad things have turned in the South and the very good possibility of a reprisal somwhere in Bangkok,"

 

A very good possibility? Aren't you being a bit alarmist here? A possibility? Sure? But a very good possibility? Come on now, I think you may be worrying yourself a bit too much on this one.

 

Gadfly said -

"When you add it all up, Bangkok is a decidedly less interesting place to visit now than it was until a year or so back."

 

Is it really that much less interesting, or maybe it is just different? Maybe less in-your-face nightlife will return the scene to something more like it might have been in the distant past.

 

I dunno, I appreciate your posts. I want to know whats going on and really like this forum because of all the valuable information. It just strikes me that your soooooooooo pessimistic. Perhaps you see something you love (the nightlife of the recent past) being changed and might be overreacting somewhat?

 

NEP, Soi Cowboy, Washington Square, Patpong, etc, are still open right? I mean so many bars with available P4P Thai girls is a hell of a lot more than most people have in their home towns and countries. Either way, I will be in BKK on Saturday so I will check it out for myself. I just have a feeling I will somehow manage to have a great time.

 

WH