Buying a house

[Guest]

Fly says"by the way, any chance you wanna adopt another kid? "

 

 

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr NOPE

[Guest]

a grow up? no need to change diapers. i know eactly the right person in need of a ri..errr...loving dad.

 

 

 

 

 

anyhow, i think best is to seek advice from a good law firm that is worth the money they demand. i guess in your case that will anyhow be only a fraction of the overall costs.

[torrenova]

There's loads of negativity surrounding house purchases in LOS but I know many in Pattaya doing just that. I'd advise getting a good legal representative, particularly on recommendation from your UK lawyers if available. Even better if your UK legal eagles have an office in LOS.

 

Again, location, location, location is the key. Too many being burgled if not on high security estates. And remember, if you kill the burglar, you'll have to go out to the car and kill his accomplice or he'll grass you.

[jitagawn]

There are some terrific and secure housing estates out on Sri Nakarin road ONe is right next to Foodland the other higher end one I visited last week is about 3km down the road The houses are about 300k -400kUS-

 

I can try and get the name and info if you want in a week or two as I am about to get on an airplane...PM me-

[Guest]

Everyone is else giving advice here, so I will throw in my two satang. I have a condo in Bangkok, an "interest" in a company that owns property elsewhere and I am considering another investment. To put this in perspective, I live and work here, have permanent residency and will probably seek Thai citizenship in a few years to get around the ridiculous restrictions on foreign ownership of property.

 

The first thing I will say will sound obvious, but you will be surprised by how many people don't follow this advice. First thing: find a good, independant legal advisor whom you can understand. Let me elaborate because this is less obvious than it sounds.

 

You will notice I put the word "independant" in bold; I did so because I know a large number of Farangs that have been burned using one stop shops. I am specifically referring to store front operations and their slightly upscale cousins where your "legal" advisor also acts as a broker (and therefore has an interest in booking the sale even if it is not in your interest to do so) and is often beholden to the developer who steers customers his way. Any operation that operates in this manner has a built in conflict of interest and this dramatically increases the chances that your interests will be compromised. (The fact that they operate with such conflicts is a warning sign in and of itself.) This is not something that just happens in Thailand - think Enron - but because transparency is a problem here the risks associated with conflicts of interest are magnified several times over here.

 

I also mentioned "good", which is the hard part. How do you know if your legal advisor is any good? Ask for recommendations. Ask your advisor hard questions. Do the answers make sense? Can you understand his answers? This gets to the last part I mentioned: someone you can understand. It is less about doing the deal (buying the property) and more about you understanding what you are getting yourself into when you do the deal. Everyone, including me, loses sight of this, but you need someone who doesn't have a stake in your buying the property, will bring you back to earth, and can explain the issues in a clear and organized manner that helps you make a rational decision.

 

Second, you will notice that instead of providing legal advice I have suggested that you get a proper legal advisor. I am a banker; not a lawyer. I know the basics, which means I know enough to know to get myself in trouble. Here are the issues I think you should consider:

 

- can I control the vehicle that owns the property?

- how do I know that I have control?

- are there criminal risks?

- what are the tax risks? will my company have to pay corporate income taxes?

- what are the costs, and not just of doing the deal, but future costs as well? will I have to hire an accountant to prepare books and income tax returns on annual basis?

 

A good legal advisor should be able to add to a list I generated just now off the top of my head after two beers and a jack n' soda.

 

Third, never rely on the kindness of strangers. Remember: you cannot own property here. You must establish a vehicle to acquire property, and that raises a host of risks that you really need to understand. And if anyone suggests a structure that requires you to depend on the honesty of strangers (nominee shareholding), simply walk away.

[BelgianBoy]

gadfly,

 

Excellent thread and great post, thanks.

Advice is plain dowwn to earth and simple logic.

 

How different from guys buying condos in Pattaya through friends or buying property in their Thai wife/GF's after knowing them for a few weeks.

 

Then again, its all about location, and a correct vehicle.

And that you dont have for a few baht, nor is it worth doing for a property upto 2-3 million Baht.

IMO of course.

 

BB

[SoiledCowboy]

There's a banner link off the bottom of

Thailand Real Estate

that gives a farangs perspective of building his own Thai-style home in Pattaya for under 1M baht, it is quite an interesting read and quite informative...something a bit different from the norm.

[Guest]

Sorry not been online,just had a long awaited operation on my shoulder,was the last thing i really needed to do in the uk,i am as sore as hell,but at least i can look forward to moving full time to Los very soon.

Whilst i was in Hospital,had a rare chance to do a lot of thinking,and i beleive you need 7 people to start Limited company,and it has to be 51%Thai,if i have two of my kids as directors,then surely if i die they will still have a legal claim to the property?

Here is some info,but it does not answer my questions,but i hope it may help others.

I am buying my house in Hua Hin,there is a property boom in Hua Hin at the moment,with houses about to increase sharply in value with the new motorway now going ahead,but i am buying because its where i want to live.

Option # 1 (for single gentlemen)

Meet and marry a Thai woman you love and trust, buy house and land in her name, and live happily together ever after! This beautifully simple solution is, for reasons we will not discuss here, the least popular option. It is, however, not uncommon, and thank goodness for that!

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Option # 2 - Limited Company - recommended.

Foreigners, aliens, or farangs, can form a Limited Company and register the land as owned by the company. The foreigner can personally own maximum 49% of the company shares, and the remaining 51% must be in the names of Thai nationals, all of whom sign undated Share Transfer Contracts at the time the company is being registered. This effectively puts 100% control of the company and its assets in the hands of the foreigner - the sole executive director. The Thai shareholders have absolutely no executive power within the company, nor need they be consulted over any issues at any time. They can also be replaced anytime at the director's wishes. (A Thai Limited Company must have minimum 7 shareholders - for example, one foreigner and six Thais). Setting up such a company takes about half an hour and your signature about 30 times.

 

A popular misconception which causes foreigners unneccessary concern is that such companies are owned by foreigners and could be exposed to imagined special (future) legislation by an imagined (future) extreme nationalist government with the intention of robbing foreigners of their real estate investments in Thailand. The fact is, however, that Limited Companies are owned by the shareholders, not their directors, the foreigners. As such, Limited Companies are Thai juristic entities subject to Thai commercial law, and any changes to legislation must apply to all Limited Companies, not only those whose directors happen to be foreigners. Thai law, both commercial and personal, is not so very different from legislation in most other countries, and it applies to all juristic entities in Thailand, foreign or Thai.

 

TH-property's associated legal firm charges 22,000 baht for the establishment of a company with the minimum requirements for ownership of land. Such companies need not do more than own property, and the required yearly audit - 0.00 baht result - costs 10,500 baht.

 

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Option # 3 - Lease - limited recommendation.

Foreigners can lease land on a 30 year contract which contains a clause giving the lessee first option on a further 30 years. The same contract, registered at the Land Office (Department of Lands), can be renewed every 30 years for a maximum of 990 years. The lessor's heirs are bound by law to honour the agreement, and the lessee can bequeath the lease to his/her heirs in a Last Will and Testement. A potential weakness with this solution is, for example, that the lessor can conceivably claim that the lessee is mismanaging the land to the detriment of its value, and can sue to dissolve the agreement. Of course, this point must be proven in court, but could be a serious headache for the lessee. Also, although leases may be offered by reputable and trustworthy land owners, conditions can change through the passage of years.

 

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Option # 4 - Contract of Credit - limited recommendation.

Instead of purchase or lease, the payment for land can be registered as a loan to the seller, documented in a Contract of Credit, registered at the Land Office. The value of the loan is set at the registered value of the land plus the actual building cost of any structures on the land. The buyer's name appears on the Title Deed as creditor, which effectively prevents the registered owner (debtor) from selling the land before repaying the loan. The weakness with this solution is that as property values rise, the value of the property will in the future be greater than the value of the loan, and the debtor could conveivably buy the land back at bargain price simply by repaying the loan.

 

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Buying condominiums

A foreigner buying a condo must transfer funds in foreign currency from a bank account outside Thailand to a Foreign Currency Account at a Thai bank, opened in the buyer's name. The transfer of funds must be in the same name as the name that will appear on the final purchase contract, ie. the buyer. Use Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank (f.k.a. Thai Farmer's Bank) or Siam Commercial Bank and be sure you tell them that the purpose of opening the Foreign Currency Account is to purchase a condominium. Transfers out of this Foreign Currency Account into a Thai Baht account or some form of Thai Baht draft or check to the seller must be made in amounts USD 10.000 or more in order to qualify for a "Tor Dor 3" Certificate, issued by the buyer's bank to verify that the originating funding came from outside Thailand in a currency other than Thai Baht. On the "Tor Dor 3" Certificate, it should state explicitly that the Thai Baht funds are used "to purchase a condominium" in Thailand. The department of Lands (Land Office) will refuse to execute the ownership transfer if the "Tor Dor 3" Certificate cannot be produced.

[check_bin_krap]

I think you are hung upon situation in the UK, where its a good idea to own instead of rent. You will make a better, or at least more secure investment owning a place in UK, than risking your money in Thailand. have it in UK - rent it out and get a steady income, use that for house costs in Thailand.

 

Throw away what you have learnt, and remember, if Thailand crack - it ain't sure old UK will. Go for safe and sound, learn to think new ways in new country.

 

If you don't have funds to own a place in UK, put it in other place than property in Thailand with all that unsure stuff anyway.

[torrenova]

gunneruk said:I am buying my house in Hua Hin,there is a property boom in Hua Hin at the moment,with houses about to increase sharply in value with the new motorway now going ahead,but i am buying because its where i want to live.

Developers increasing prices and building ever more houses does not constitute a boom. Some fo the stuff i have reviewed in Hua Hin is seriously overpriced by several million baht. Be careful.