thai3 Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Standing up for yourself and risking getting hurt seems to me like one of the most stupid things a person can do in a bad situation, like throwing petrol on a fire to try and put it out. Far better to bend with the wind, make people laugh if possible and have another drink. Macho bullshit will get you into just the corners you are warning about-peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 when it's down to the point to actually safe your life, then kissing arse will not help much anymore, running works better in such situations. ...or just being cool. but basically, one can avoid the trouble by thinking before acting. that means that i do avoid potential trouble, at least when the odds are clearly against me. and that is what this thread is about, avoiding situations that can get out of hand easily. you can do it the smart way - go out with friends/relatives, and have a great time. you can do it the stupid way, by kissing arse, which makes you lose face (as i live here, work here, this would have serious effects on my life). and personally, i don't think that kissing arse works in the long run. one time shown that you stand up for yourself generally means that people start respecting you and don't give you any hazzle anymore. or do you want people taking the piss on a regular base? there will be the moment when that intrudes so much into your privacy that you have no other way then defending yourself, which is gonna be very difficult then - nobody respects you, nobody will help you. what happened when i freshly moved into my new house? the kids from the nearby slum who play football every day in front of my house (yes, they are swordswinging hooligans, i have seen them once in a conflict with another gang from a different slum in the area) started taking the piss, adressing me with very impolite thai, looking how far they can go with the farang. i wasn't taking any of that, told them that i am not gonna accept that. and the whole thai stuff - staring in face, etc. until they apologised. and yes, i was scared, but it had to be done if i wanted to keep living peacefully in the area. and now i have no problem whatsoever with them, they always offer to take me to end of the soi on their bikes when they pass me. i don't need to be scared that they take liberties with the missus. and i know that they watch out that nothing happens to my house. i you ever plan living in thailand, forget the crap that farang have no face, or are outside the face rules. it depends entirely on you, but forget living in a thai area, and making thai friends here, if you don't start building face. in sukkhumvit, in some expat apartment it hardly matters, but in thai areas it does. but if you want to live in sukkhumvit farang ghetto, IMHO you will also miss the best this place has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 <<when it's down to the point to actually safe your life, then kissing arse will not help much anymore, running works better in such situations>> I whole heartly agree!!!! Truth is if some Thai dude started on me because he had issues with me being with a tg, I would proberbly kick him square in the gonads....it wouldn't end there, my understanding is Thais will gang up on a falang in such circumstances, I would be eating Tom Yung Gung through a IV for 4 weeks I fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 >>>my understanding is Thais will gang up on a falang in such circumstances, <<< one of the big urban legends going around here. nops, "thais" will not gang up on the sole farang - the friends of the bloke will gang up on you. if the bloke would be alone, without his 'puac', other thais would rarely get involved. but, as i mentioned - thais generally do not go out alone, they go out where they are known, so chances are that his puac is around. the way how you said, you go out, with missus and relatives, the bloke would most definately not vent his anger out on you, and if - he would be the one having to use a straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetCity Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Very interesting thread ... which as I read it, makes me think about my own experiences. First of all, I've been recently hanging around on Sukhumvit 103 in one of those big open air karaoke/food/bar joints. I guess this is technically Bang Na, but not even for a second in that place, or walking the streets near there, did I ever feel threatened. That area does not look poor (or dangerous) to me ... are we talking about the same area? Same goes for the Rom Klao area of Lat Krabang ... seems poor-ish but never had any problems despite being the only farang in the market, bar, or housing projects. Is this on the list of dangerous areas? Perhaps I've been lucky or naieve. Now, I have noticed that my PTGF (psyco thai gf) always takes me to places where she knows someone. Never has she suggested we go somewhere unknown to her. In all those places we've gone, I've only felt uncomfortable once (getting the evil eyes ... nothing more that that ... and this was like Sukhumvit 28), and we haven't gone back. I think, as you all say, this is the Thai way, go where you are known. Good idea. Case and point. At one little karaoke bar (near Suk 71) she and I are regulars. No farang. There was this one older fool who when drunk and tends to want to get in my face ... not wanting to fight, but just being a jerk, trying to make me sing, etc... One night he pushed it too far and made a comment to my gf and grabbed by my elbow - hard. Before I knew it, I wheeled him around and had him in an tight armlock (I know it hurt) and told him in thai to stop being a pest (Yah yoong na!). Then I let him go. By that time the owner of the bar had come and took/pushed the guy outside to talk to him. He left. Well, since then I've been worried about a re-encounter (I haven't seen him there since). GF tells me not to worry as everyone there knows us. Hmmmm... makes me wonder what could have happened if that wasn't the case. BTW, if I do see the guy again, I'll think I'll pretend it didn't happen and see how he reacts. Finally, I respect the opinions of those who live full time in BKK. What is the definitive list of areas (or bars) of BKK that are notoriously dangerous. Jet PS - Someone said Tawan Daeng is dangerous?! I say not dangerous at all and I've been there 25 times+ The worst I've seen is some thai guy try to whack his girl with a bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 >>>In all those places we've gone, I've only felt uncomfortable once (getting the evil eyes ... nothing more that that ... and this was like Sukhumvit 28), and we haven't gone back. <<< i actually made a few paragraphs on the eye which i deleted before posting. lotsa fights start that way. usual explanation at the police station for slashing some bloke up: "mong na" (he looked me in the face)... >>>That area does not look poor (or dangerous) to me ... are we talking about the same area? Same goes for the Rom Klao area of Lat Krabang ... seems poor-ish but never had any problems despite being the only farang in the market, bar, or housing projects. Is this on the list of dangerous areas? Perhaps I've been lucky or naieve.<<< it's a funny thing here in bangkok - very few areas do actually *look* poor or dangerous. nice shophouses, nice roads, and then just go down a small alley and you are in the middle of a slum hidden away behind all the facades. the area i live is mainly middle class, single houses with gardens, typical thai neighborhood. but just 50 meters away from my house is a small alley, and behind that 4 rai of slum. you would not have the slightest idea that it is there if you don't know. don't forget - about 30% of bangkok's population does live in slums. and lots more in cheapo apartments. nevertheless, just drive through some of the long and dark sois in the suburbs at night, where they do live, and you will feel the uncomfortable athmosphere. another weird thing that took me a long time to get used to is that rarely things are obviously aggro, so much happens with utter subtelty, and appears to suddenly go off without much warning. nasty kids and nice kids dress the same, talk the same way, just look exactly the same. no dresscodes as in american gangs, no uniformed haircuts like our skinheads, fuck all to distinguish them. i have seen polite, friendly and all around nice kids in police stations just after they have slashed some bloke to pieces. the other day, one of the boys firing themselves up for a fight in that temple fair came over to me and started a polite conversation with me, the samurai sword hidden under his shirt. even after all those years here in that environment, i still have no way to distinguish them. my friends tell me who is a nasty cunt to stay away from, and i believe them, but that is all i can do. and some of my friends are nasty cunts themseles if the situation demands. many times i was utterly surprised when my helpful and nice friends were in some altercation, and suddenly, for a few moments they looked like straight out of clockwork orange, tools appeared out of the hidden, just to turn back into really cool guys when things were over. i just don't take anything for granted here anymore, and i guess i have many years more learning in front of me before i really understand this (if ever). rarely things here are as they appear. often i cannot point the finger, but i do know that the potential for ultraviolence is always around the corner. i can't say anything more than to be aware of that, anywhere outside the protected tourist zones. i simply can't tell you that this or the other particular place is safe/unsafe. the only things i can tell you is that bang na and samut prakan have a serious reputation (thonburi area as well), and that correlates with my own experiences there. the longer i am around here, the more it blows my mind. at times it terrifies me, and then, at the same moment, i have to chuckle at the utter absurdity of the whole thing. i hope that doesn't confuse the issue even more. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai3 Posted November 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I don't live in the suk ghetto and never intend to, why do you think I go to so many thai places-because I do want the best thailand has to offer and that's it's music IMO. As for physically sticking up for oneself this is not really an option for me at my age and build so I employ other methods which do not necessarily involve 'kissing arse'. I would probably never go out in large groups either which you keep recommending and I doubt if many other visitors would, at least on a regualr basis. One thing we have not mentioned is the danger you might create for yourself by becoming too pissed-to be avoided at all costs. This might have got me into bother a couple of weeks ago when I rarely became shit faced with another board memeber attending 2 jintara concerts in one night with 2 ladies. After we went to a karoake until 4 am where I am pretty sure I offended one of a group of guys, I was probably too far gone to have 'stood up for myself' even if I had been inclined to. Luckily my knowledge of thai music smoothed things over and probably even gave me some face.Face is not always gained at someone elses expense or by playing the tough nut. If it was a life or death situation who would risk a life for face, I would run as fast as I could. The situation with the kids was somewhat different to nightlife venues and I agree you have to make a stand where your home life is concerned-peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai3 Posted November 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I dont recall anyone saying tatwang deang was dangerous, I'd say it is a very safe venue. I think the open air cafe you mention might be the one on the corner of suk soi 105, the most dangerous things there are the rats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai3 Posted November 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 flyonzewall said:the only things i can tell you is that bang na and samut prakan have a serious reputation (thonburi area as well), and that correlates with my own experiences there. Oh no not thonburi as well, that is my favourite nightlife area of all with THE best cafes in Bangkok not to mention the glories of the mall bang kae.Rangsit is another good nightime area.-peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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