chuckwoww Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 I just spent a lot of time fiddling with this so I hope the link works....it may not last long because you are supposed to register...click on 'Freeing Sex Slaves' for the video. http://www.nytimes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 chuckwoww said:I just spent a lot of time fiddling with this so I hope the link works....it may not last long...click on 'Freeing Sex Slaves' for the video. http://www.nytimes.com/ It worked fine. But it is interesting that IMHO, after listening to what the guy was saying, both girls were not "sex slaves", but freely chose to do what they did out out of a desire (misguided or not) to help their family. Paraphrasing: "Somebody told me I could make money at the brothel. I sold my virginity for $1K and I got $600 of it. I was proud to be a prostitute and helping my family." But of course "sex slaves" sells newspapers. Teenagers making wrong choices do not. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Very typical stories. And those are very typical Khmer village girls selling it to Thai and Khmer guys for a dollar or two. The Vietnamese set up at Svay Pak was a bit different but the girls didn't seem unhappy about being there. Poipet is a dump. Incidentally Kristoff was one of the first journalists to write about K.11. He probably did more than anybody to put it on the pedo map. There will probably be an increased interest in Poipet now after all the publicity. I suppose he thinks he's doing good....really hard to tell with journalists. Most of the ones I've met are just interested in juicy stories. And of course they can spin a story any way they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Cent these words of yours <<As you wrote a lot of these women are almost "programmed" to accept their "fate" their "karma" and do not fight back strenuously when this choice is presented to them. It's all to "help the family", even when the family isn't that bad off to begin with. Like I said earlier, maybe this thread should focus more on why the women/daughters/wives are NOT valued enough where most family members would do anything in their power to keep a lady from even entertaining this choice to help the family. There almost seems to be a "pimp" mentality in this part of the world to a certain extent indoctrinated through their religious beliefs and cultural patriarchal society. Women are not valued as much as men. I've said it before and I'll say it again, in a lot of ways Thailand is fifty years behind, at least, then the west is in certain areas>> Should be another thread as well, I hope you write about it as I too want to contribute about how, many of the things we admire, are actually holding back this country we call home. To Kamui, thanks for that article, I followed the first know ing what would happen, kinda like watching a traing crash in slow motion. It's obvious nothing is black and white, so many shades of grey, but as Dave said, at least we can discuss it! And by discussing it, maybe more benifits will come than NOT DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Nervous_Dog said: To Kamui, thanks for that article, I followed the first know ing what would happen, kinda like watching a traing crash in slow motion. It's obvious nothing is black and white, so many shades of grey, but as Dave said, at least we can discuss it! And by discussing it, maybe more benifits will come than NOT DOG The most interesting part of Kristoph's report is yet to come: At the end of the month he will make an proposol about "tactics that might help" against sex trafficking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthai Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 In today?s online edition of the NYT, Kristof responds to reader?s questions about his series of articles on Cambodia?s sex-trade. Looks like one of the questions was posted by a punter. Its also interesting to note that in Kristof?s reply he acknowledges that some of the girls are willing prostitutes. Below is an excerpt from the Q&A Here's a link to the entire Q&A An indignant reader writes about my Saturday column: Yes, imagine that, the Cambodians finally got enough of having the NGOs telling them how to run their country, and Cambodian government troops attacked the AFESIP NGO headquarters, and re-captured the freed working girls. Good for Cambodia. ? it surely isnt sex trafficking when the Vietnamese girls willingly cross from Vietnam to Cambodia to work in the brothels. To the girls, it is not shame, it is not servitude. It is just Sex-Work. Can we just please leave Cambodia to the Cambodians, and keep the do-gooder NGOs out of Asia? Please? Kristof's reply: Come on! Of course there?s shame and of course there?s servitude. One measure of the shame is that the prostitutes, even if they escape the brothels, rarely find husbands. And while there certainly are both Vietnamese and Khmer girls who are willingly working as prostitutes, there are also vast numbers who are forced into this work. If it?s not servitude, then why are girls beaten when they try to escape? I agree that there are plenty of willing prostitutes, and if they?re 18 then I?m not so worried about them. But when you?ve got 14-year-old girls being kidnapped off the street and then sold to traffickers, even locked up in cages, then that?s not some quaint local custom. That?s slavery. As for leaving Cambodians to the Cambodians, that?s reasonable ? but the president of Afesip is a Cambodian, and the raid on the Chai Hour II brothel was ordered by the Cambodian police. Meanwhile, the customers buying the 14-year-old girls are mostly foreigners, particularly Thais, Malays, Taiwanese and Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 There's been lots of stuff written elsewhere since the raid at Chay Hour II. Not by me (in case anybody thinks I'm obsessed with this stuff) but I like to keep up with it. I actually haven't been to Cambodia for a couple of years and I have no burning desire to go back. Just a couple of points. Mr. Kristoff does a good job of reinforcing his case. Somboon may be Cambodian but AFESIP is a French organization, Pierre Legros is the driving force, and the funding comes from all the usual sources. The police? Hmmm. Since when did one zealous officer who owes her appointment to Western feminists constitute the Cambodian police force? Here?s the official version for what its worth.. http://www.interior.gov.kh/news_content.asp?NewsID=25 and here's AFESIPs website... http://www.afesip.org/index.php I would say the general feeling among people who know the P4P scene in Cambodia is that AFESIP overstepped the line. Probably after shutting Svay Pak down they were looking for fresh conquests. I don't think they expected the locals to fight back. But I'm sure they'll find a new angle and keep trying. It will be interesting to find out what Mr. Kristoff proposes. He may have to redefine his ?mission?. Instead of rescuing the ?hundreds of thousands of women trafficked every year? perhaps he'll tackle the problem at the source. At least he has identified the culprits. Anyway only a fool would get into an argument with Mr. Kristoff. Kidnapping '14-year-old girls off the street and keeping them locked up in cages' is disgusting and totally indefensible. Also he uses words very skillfully and he always gets the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthai Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Chuckwoww Quote: ___________________________________________________ It will be interesting to find out what Mr. Kristoff proposes. He may have to redefine his ?mission?. Instead of rescuing the ?hundreds of thousands of women trafficked every year? perhaps he'll tackle the problem at the source. At least he has identified the culprits. ___________________________________________________ Hmmm....let me take a guess as to what Mr. Kristof will propose. I think he's already hinted at what the possible solutions are....The need for greater public awarnes and international cooperation in order to address poverty, lack of educational oppurtunities as well as a stronger international legal framework to prosecute both the Johns and pimps. He'll mainly stress the need for the international community to supply greater economic aid for countries like Cambodia. That's my prediction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 "The need for greater public awarnes and international cooperation in order to address poverty, lack of educational oppurtunities as well as a stronger international legal framework to prosecute both the Johns and pimps." That sounds exactly like the kind of thing somebody would say at a UN conference when they're looking for more funding. Means nothing until you start to get real. We will see. Closing Svay Pak was easy. Know why? Because with all those pedos around nobody wanted to see themselves on TV. I doubt if anybody will be taking on the Japanese/Australian/Thai/Malay/Taiwanese mafias. Sex tourists are a much easier target right? Such monsters they are. Castrate the bastards I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 And once Cambodia is 'cleaned up' , attention will probably be focused on Cambodia's neighbor, Thailand. [color:"green"] Welcome to the real world. [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . [/color] [color:"white"] . . . . . [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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