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The Union of Myanmar


buffalo_bill

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Roger,

A bit like Zoot is saying : relay and enjoy !

I was in Angola during their war, I was in sudan during troubles, I was in Lebanon during their crazy war, I have seen it and tasted it.

I fully know the Burmese are oppressed, but BB went there anyway and posted a nice report for which I complimented him, and yes, I'm fully aware of the reverse side of many coins.

So 1 question : can BB change anything by NOT going there ? Hell, no ....

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quote:

Originally posted by BelgianBoy:

So 1 question : can BB change anything by NOT going there ? Hell, no ....

 

I agree if everyone has that attitude then, NO, nothing will change. It has to start somewhere.

The big lingerie company, "Triumph International" have just realised that pulling out could make a change.

'Support breasts, not dictators' Hows that for a great slogan laugh.gif" border="0

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1787000/1787196.stm

Cheers

Roger

"When spiders unite they can tie down a lion."-- Ethiopian Proverb

--------------------------------------------

"Sometimes it's better to have the people of the world on your side than the governments of the world"

-Aung San Suu Kyi-

[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: Roger ]

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quote:

Originally posted by BelgianBoy:

[QB]

Roger,

A bit like Zoot is saying : relay and enjoy !

I was in Angola during their war, I was in sudan during troubles, I was in Lebanon during their crazy warQB]

Were you there looking for Sanuk?? Any good blowjob bars??? laugh.gif" border="0

Roger

[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: Roger ]

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@ zoot and BelgianBoy

the democratically elected leader of Burma, Aung San Suu Kyi, has said that touists should not come to Burma because if they come this would help the dictators. And she has said that it is up to the people of Burma to decide in which way they can better gain their freedom, it is not up to foreigners to tell the people of Burma that tourism is good for them.

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I know what Sue baby says - -But if we all HAD to do what she says then wouldn't she be the dictator?

I just want to make my own choices in life-I haven't read anything here that I did not know already - Not all the decisions we make in life are popular with others -surely that should not stop us - for example being obssesed with Go Go bars-I can imagine many many western women would find that a MUCH bigger issue than a trip to Burma.That doesn't change the way we act or think though does it???

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To all :

- yes, I know that with this attitude of 'I cant change anything' that nothing will change, but sofar I did participate in numerous marches, .... and nothing changed except that my voice was heard ( and hurt ).

- I still did appreciated Buffalo-Bill's trip report for what it was : a trip report, and yes, he gave me an interest to go there as well.

- for your info I did work in the 80's for a petrochemical inspection comapny and I had a chance to visit a huge number of countries, well close to 100.

- Angola : As for Angola, I was in Pointe-Noire 3 times when the whole country was at was and Cuban soldiers were everywhere, and yes sanuk was available.

Girls black as the night, 18 to 20 years old would come in the evening to the container-barracks and 'sleep-over'.... price : $ 10 for a whole bloody week !!!!! cheapest ever paid, AND they cleaned the room and did the laundry as well smile.gif" border="0smile.gif" border="0smile.gif" border="0

[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: BelgianBoy ]

[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: BelgianBoy ]

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I wonder what the world would care about Burma if not a pretty lady who never forgets to put beautiful flowers behind the ear would lead the opposition. Who did care/cares about Argentina/ Chile/ParaguaY/ China/ Zimbabwa/Angola and 20 others.There is the regular complaint of course but where was the international uproar about Afghanistan before Sept 11th ? I dare to say that Burma nowadays is a paradise in comparison to the Taliban.

I have a more specified opinion about this Burma-thing and before you slaughter me , here comes the mantra : I know the junta is a gang of criminals and suppresses civil rights. And they take money from the druglords . ( Is there anybody here who knows somebody who was told by somebody that a reliable source has evidence about that ? I mean clean evidence , druglord gives money to general , "I have seen it.") Don't present me any civil rights groups reports without hard facts, anybody who has a political target just fiddles things to his desire.

What I think about the human rights' guys forcing to close the Triumph factory and lay off 1000 workers this month ? Instead of sitting in an office in London they should ask the workers what alternative they have. My heart stops if I read this. Who is so stupid to think the closure of one of the few factories in Burma will make the generals change their direction ?

If you travel through Burma and would not know about the political background there is absolutely nothing that reminds you of a dictatorship. In the former paradise of the working class like Eastern Germany etc you could see, feel and smell it. In Rangoon you buy Western newspapers if you like, there is not more police around than in Bangkok and if you want to talk about about politics you will find plenty of willing partners. I spent a lot of time of exactly this.

One of the URL's mentioned in this thread complains about 1500 political prisoners. Every one of them is too much but if 1500 is a benchmark I could compose a list of countries. This does not make Burma an extra bad example. I am saying that NOTHING that happens in Burma makes it an extra bad example. They are just one of too many.

In case there is anybody left not thinking that buffalo bill is an ignorant, I will now make it easy for the last ones to join :

Famous Mrs Aung San Suu, the pretty one with the flowers. If I was the commitee in charge, i would present her another prize for political marketing. I have read a book about her, no need to teach me what she stands for.

No doubt she deserves to lead the government simply because she has been elected. I would be interested to see how she deals with the Shan and Red Wha, Burma has about 100 tribes , many of them give a damn on what happens in Rangoon. Currently the arrangement seems to be : you get our drugmoney, you leave us alone ; how to replace that system ?

I am not so sure if Mrs Aung San Suu is not just another example of the Bandaraneike/ Gandhi/Bhutto - tradition of Asian ladies living on former merits of their families. It remains to be seen. What is commonly regarded as a brave fight for freedom could also be interpreted as a fanatical approach on ruling a country. It is at least a possibility which I am asking to consider. She let her husband die in a hospital in London and refused to see him in fear of closed borders when she came back. Fine, but to me this is simply an act of brutality.But there are the flowers and she looks so pretty.

Conclusion : There is a lot more to say and I repeat I am in no way defending the Junta and do not question Mrs Aung is the legal leader of this country. What I ask for is not to fall for nicely organised ( well-meant) propaganda because there are always two sides to consider even it is the ugly generals. Burma is no worse than others. Mrs Aung seems to have met one of the generals these days, signs of hope probably for a change in politics which might lead this beautiful country into a better future which it so much deserves. Would this be under leadership of Mrs Aung, my sympathies are guaranteed. Flowers or no flowers.

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One year ago I've been there. For one Dollar you got between 400 and 430 Kyat. It seems the Kyat goes down faster than the Thai-Baht.

Buffalo Bill, I fully agree with your conclusion: A truely beautiful country with endlessly friendly citizens!

Cause I grew up in Eastern Germany I know that we were happy to learn to know western people. I think it is the same for the Burmese People. Nobody helps them if you don't visit their beautiful country.

And I also agree with you that you see nearly nothing of the Dictatorship when you travel as a tourist, maybe except some large signs (like: Long live the SPDC!) in Rangun.

Leo.

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Buffalo Bill,

Thanks for that trip report. I've wanted to visit Burma myself some day. Great report.

To All,

Thanks guys for making this an interesting thread with your thoughts and comments. I was afraid this thread, the political aspects, would cause it to degenerate into a flame fest. It hasn't, and I thank you guys for making it an intelligent discussion which has added much to BBill's original post.

A question for Bill, and others who've been there. Is there any sort of a Sanuk scene there? Visible or underground? Someone mentioned they have a good beer there. Anyone know the name of it? How's the food compared to Thai cuisine? Bill, did you visit any temples or ruins you'd recommend? Any good natural sights there, such as waterfalls, beaches, mountains, and such that would be a must see? I've yet to study up on Burma, and always prefer first hand info from those who have been there. How was the language barrier Bill? Do a lot of the people speak some English? Burma has a lot of coastline I'd like to explore. How was the seafood? Did you feel uneasy at all anywhere there, concerned for your safety in otherwords? More questions to come once I reread Bill's original report.

Thanks Bill and all for a good thread!

Cent

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