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Sin sot-a TG view


thai3

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This is a post from another board in response to the often seen responses in a sin sot thread such as don't pay because: it's a con,it's buying a wife,greedy parents, 200,000 baht is outrageous etc. I have the lady's permission to post it here but she does not want her name or the board given. I think it's always interesting to read a thai's opinion on such things:

 

 

It frustrates me to see that so many non-Thais view "sin sod" as a buy-sell issue. The use of the words "pay" and "cost" offends me even when used by the guys who mean well who say that they were willing to "pay" this "cheap price" for their bride's honor. The thing is, I have always viewed it as a gift to be "given" as a token of respect rather than "paid".

 

As a Thai, and a woman at that, I just want to point out a few things, in hopes of helping explain the mentality behind this custom:

 

- From what I understood, sin sod was a way for the groom to show that he can provide for his bride. In other words, it proves that he is well-off, and the newlyweds will not starve to death later on. It is also to impress the wedding guests.

 

- From what I understood, the sin sod is not initially demanded by the bride's family. The groom's parents are the ones who are supposed to offer it, though the bride's parents may request more if they feel it is an insultingly meagre amount. They might also request a ridiculously high amount as a deterrent (read - if you can't afford this, you're not good enough for our dear daughter; we do not want her to fall upon hard times living with a bum like you)

 

- In this modern age, traditional customs might not always be followed (esp. in relationships with non-Thais), but the custom of sin sod is still alive in many Thai weddings, in fact nearly all the ones I've known of. It's still a custom, like farangs buying diamond engagement rings. Not always necessary in your society, people don't always get married, much less engaged, but isn't it still very important for a lot of people? How would a woman in your culture feel if a guy proposed to her.. but had no engagement ring to offer? And why isn't the ring considered "payment" for her becoming his wife?

 

- With some couples, the groom is not from a well-off family, and cannot put up a sin sod sufficiently large enough to impress the wedding guests. In these cases, sometimes the bride's family actually provides the money that is to be used for the ceremony (without telling the guests of course). After the wedding they may take it back or perhaps give it to the couple to help start off their new life together.

 

- It's not always a one-way thing. Sometimes the bride's family (and/or the groom's family) give some land or other valuables as gifts to the couple as well. I have seen actual land title deeds being given as a part of the ceremony.x00,000 baht is not considered ridiculously high. 6, 7 or even 8 -digit figures are possible. The higher it is, the higher it proves the groom's status to be. (Try finding out the sin sod for those really hi-so weddings, you'll be shocked at what is offered!)

 

 

This is just what I understand of the custom, and from what I've seen at various weddings of family and acquaintances, both in Thailand and at Thai weddings abroad. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

 

 

Before visiting this forum it had never even occurred to me that non-Thais would even feel offended by this, and view it as a financial transaction for wife-purchasing. It had always seemed an integral part of the wedding to me. I do realize that in a lot of cases the farang is played for a sucker. This post is just to try to clarify reasons for observing the custom, for those who seem to think the whole thing is just a scam to extort money from hapless "wife-buying" farangs. The custom IS there in our culture, the issue is whether the lady you're marrying is observing tradition or was just planning to bleed you dry in the first place.

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Good poins Peter.

 

My sister on law gets married in a few weeks.

 

The wedding was discussed over a dinner/piss up at Songkran. I supplied the Canadian Rum!

 

The amount was agreed to 20 000 baht, HOWEVER the couple had to pay 10 000 of that to her parents!

 

This was supposed to be proof of their committment to both the wedding and working (They re a bit slack these two, and she;s previously married and has a kid)

 

However the point SHE has to pay some of it is interesting

 

DOG

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Seems a 'best buy' at the price but she has been married before so previously used :o. My impression is that 200-300k is expected for a uni eduacated no kids and not married before girl. BG about 40-100k, Hi So a million and up.-peter

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"...Try finding out the sin sod for those really hi-so weddings, you'll be shocked at what is offered!..."

 

I was told that most upper class Thais consider Sin Sod to be a non issue. Often, the High so families would know each other and their status, thus, no need to prove it. I have also been told that sometimes simply showing the girls father a bank statement or investment portfolio is proof enough that the guy has cash. Further more, I was told Sin Sod is more emphasized and often more exploited in Issarn.

 

From what I have seen first hand, some families will use the wedding/sin sod as a chance to really shake down the farang...Marrage to a farang can often be nothing more than a business, with every opportunity exploited. In these cases, the insult is clear, and any offense taken is understandable. Just as we farangs need to bend and accept Thai culture when we marry a Thai, so to must the Girl bend a bit, and accept certain aspects of our culture.

 

Face it, if the guy has the cash for frequent trips to Thailand to meet the girl, hemost likely has the cash to support her. Sin Sod as a gift? why would a high so, or even middle class family even need it? and a poor family will be getting (most likely) a monthly stipened anyway...like anything else, up to the people involved to do what their situation warrents...

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Nothing to do with most families esp Hi So 'needing' sin sot but following the tradition or not, seems most still do and not just in Issan. Face comes into it more than need I think. I have never been to any Hi So weddings so don't know if the tradition is followed as much as others or not.-peter

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Hi,

 

I posted concerning this can-be-issue before (answering HT, I think) that a sin sod of a million is nothing for many Thai families. I know a woman who got married for the 3rd time (married before or not is not a problem in many families) whose sin sod was offered 30 million Baht, please notice, it is "offered". Of course, for her family, 30 mil is peanuts, it was the gesture of the groom which counted. She was delighted thinking that her now-husband honored her with the amount, being a twice divorcee and all.

 

I got married without the sin sod for I had no need to impress guests or whoever. Still have no need to impress how much I have. :D

 

Notice that "impressing guests" is a big deal for most Thais and many of them even lie of the amount :banghead: For me, if the sin sod is important, follow the custom, but I won't care what the guests think. That being said, some people will probably said that I am out of touch with the Thai customs. ::

 

Jasmine

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Hi, its all very well to say its a Thai tradition, so was slavery in many countries, I would have thought the benefits of marrying a foriegner would far out way the initial gain, it seems odd to me that a family who live in the humblest of dwellings and only earn a few thousand a month can be talking 100s of thousands of baht. I would have thought that to parade a large amount of money in front of some not so well off relatives would be an insult to them. I know that Thais view life from a different perspective but they also need to know that not all foriegners are rich, even we struggle to get by at times, sorry about the slavery thing but my point was things do change, Lapaz62

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Guest lazyphil

Muslim and Christian cultures in LOS are not considored 'Thai' are they, Buddhism prevails as what is considored to be Thainess, not my way of thinking about it btw, just how it appears to me. So the bottom line is sinsot is a Thai custom?

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I don't think you understand sin sot, it's not about financial 'gain' but about face. In many, if not most cases the money is given back minus the costs of the wedding. To say it is not a thai tradition is to deny the reality, it IS for most thai's, and that does not include muslims and christian minorities. Those who don't agree with the tradition will either have to show the GF up or marry from the minority population ::-peter

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