whosyourdaddy Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 "You could also count on the support of the police and the laws" YOU CAN CERTAINLYU count on the LOS cops. Pay them 3000b and they will put the guy in jail for a night. Simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 "...The question comes down to does the physical violent reaction to bad behavior is an appropriate reaction..." As I Pointed out, it is case to case, depends on the behavior, and how it is dealt with. Example, put your feet up on the table, and the person Smashes you. No. Put your feet up and you are asked to put them down, and you get up say fuck you, make me...well yeah, maybe. But you made that choice. "...At least in my western culture, I am taken back and quite surprised by what little things or even big things in LOS cause such an, i would deem, inappropriate reaction based on what transpired. But in thai culture, this seems to be a norm. So it might be fitting for thai society that this is an expected norm..." More and more, I see people, mostly younger, but still people in generel reacting in "overkill mode" as well. In Asia. LOS it is called "face" here in the USA, it is called "Dissing" or "give me respect..." or "...don't disrespect me..." the penalty for doing such can be severe. Perhapes not justified, but is the norm in a certain element of our society. To say that society as a whole is hypocritical because it (or others) calls it self peaceful and religious is rediculis. "...the taxi driver who assulted his passengers, two drunk falangs, because they put their feet up on his seats, threw up inside his car? and just acted rude. obnoxious, etc..." Hmmm wasn't there, don't know. But, if these guys repeatedly vomited in his taxi, with no ieffort to put their head out the window, or if they told the driver fuck you when he told them to put their feet down, or laughed in his face at what they had done, and didn't offer compensation for cleaning... well then they may well have escalated the situation. How many times have you seen (anywhere) a guy being told his behavior was off, and he sticks his chest out, and yells "fuck you, so what, make me do..." So he has now issued a challange to correct his behavior, so when someone does, is it wrong? If you gut punch him, and on the way down he hits something and knocks some teeth out, well it sounds more severe then warrented, but it was his choice to escalate it. As I said before, what is a small girl (or guy) supposed to do? just take this shit? Taking shit is how a society breaks down... In any event, you are right, the thread is deteriorating. If you/we don't feel safe in LOS, and don't like the people or their attitudes, we are free to leave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 whosyourdaddy said:"You could also count on the support of the police and the laws" YOU CAN CERTAINLYU count on the LOS cops. Pay them 3000b and they will put the guy in jail for a night. Simple O.k. true point. Pay a cop whatever, now you're out the bribe and the bar tab...hopefully the cop could get you your money as part of a deal...butyou still have to cut him in, unless he can get his end from the punter...depends on his "negotiating" skills I guess. Again, to repeat myself, and steer it back on track, I am not sure what happened in the original post scenario, but I am only going by my observations and experiences in LOS. Which is, it usually comes down to a drunk crossing a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 FIGJAM said:The point which you fail to see is that 1st world western societies don't condone in any way violent physical reactions to non physical offences You obviously did not grow up in the inner city of any large city in the States. It is exactly the same thing there. I have seen severe beatings just because you wore the wrong color clothes into a neighborhood, even I have been on the receiving end. I have seen a kid killed in a crowded public school lunchroom because he did not want to let someone steal his winter coat. Too many examples to list. Take off your rose colored glasses, my man. FIGJAM said:You, as a foreigner in a western country, can infringe as many "cultural taboos" as you want, can exchange words with anyone, can get drunk and try to not pay your bar tab and, as long as you don't physically hurt anyone, can count on the strongest public condemnation of anyone who sent you to an ICU with a fractured skull and internal bleedings just because of that. 5555555555555 See above. I would love for you to spend a weekend in my old neighborhood in Detroit! I *would* send flowers to you hospital room tho', cuz I am a nice guy 55555555555. FIGJAM said:You could also count on the support of the police and the laws and it should be remembered that one country's laws stem from its own culture and social values and the lack of laws (and the way those are enforced by the police force and the judicial system) in Thailand protecting its guests is quite telling of the "Land of Smiles" and its people... 55555555 In my old Detroit neighborhood, the cops would not come in alone, let alone get involved in much of anything. But regarding Thailand...you want you cake and want to eat it too, eh? This is a third world country. If you want to fuck whores with impunity, drink in illegal establishments, buy pirated DVDs, break numerous other laws but have the coppers look the other way, etc., etc., etc., then you have to take the good with the bad and have some sense. If not, your stupid ignorant drunken ass will get what it deserves. Thailand is the closest thing to a working anarchy there is. If people follow simple social rules, it all works. When someone gets out of line, it is corrected. I happen to like it that way, but some idiots think that anarchy means that they can get away with anything. Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Old Hippie said:yeah what is a 40kg girl supposed to do with a hugh guy who won't pay his bill and is going to cost her big time? Hey!!! Leave me out of this!!! Hugh (mak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Suadam, Have to agree with you here dude. I remember the scraps over food and lunch money. Most of the kids I went to school with in SFO (Mission district, not as bad as Detroit I grant you, but no country club either), had very little, a lot were on welfare, loss of their money of lunch coupon was dire. In that situation, you fight and you fight hard to keep what little you have. Lose the material good, you fight for honor or principle. If it means hurting a guy permanently...so be it...but others would leave you alone. Oddly, I do remember the unofficial policy was if you fought the bullies 1-2 times, they were sort of honor bound to leave you alone. This worked...a "working anarchy" as you put it... I kind of like that also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Hi! I have yo agree with this. As TM pointed out Thai can become very violent from time to time but I have rarely seen any unprovoked violence against a farang. Every time I have been accosted by a drunken Thai there have been friends of his that have sorted out the situation. I feell much safer going out drunken at night in Bkk than I would in my home town Stockholm. regards ALHOLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Hi! well, if this happend in farangland, you can bet the barowner would be in the clink and suied sensell besides. Not necessaryly. Some years back a Japanese student was shot dead in the US because he knocked on the wrong door to ask for directions. The murderer was not sent to jail. regards ALHOLK P.S. the same thing could probably happen in my country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Interesting thread this one. I am siding with Figjam on this one. It seems to me that the punishment often meted out by Thais to farangs far outweighs the supposed infraction. The thing is no matter how long you have been in LOS you are never going to be ready for an out of control Thai or Thais. By the time you notice something you are already going to be in a pool of blood. The old hand obviously has an advantage but what about all the tourists that are beaten and murdered who don't understand that Thais have the right to beat and kill farangs with impunity. They didn't see any of this in the tourist brochures. They may not understand the concept of loss of face and indeed the whole conflict may revolve around a linguistic problem. The more you scratch the surface of Thai culture the nastier it seems to be. Thailand is a very dangerous and violent place where the rule of law is very unstable. How many farangs are murdered every year in Pattaya alone and these are listed as suicides or balcony jumps...there is a huge industry in assisted jumps in Pattaya and no one seems to bother too much if another farang meets his maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 As OH said, I have NEVER seen a Thai go off on someome who did not ask for it. Random acts of violence just do not happen in farang areas (OK, never say never, but it is so rare that I cannot recall the last time). That is one of the great pleasures of living here. All I am saying mate, is that if you go to SoHo in London, or King's Cross in Sydney, or any other quasi-legal red light district, and piss all over the locals, you will most likely get the same treatment (that is, an ass kicking, or worse). Why is it a surprise here in LoS? The moral is to leave the chest-thumping testosterone at home unless you want trouble. "It seems to me that the punishment often meted out by Thais to farangs far outweighs the supposed infraction." Dunno about that. Let's see. In the past month, I have seen and/or heard of: some guy pouring a beer over some waitress' head and laugh because it was the wrong brand; repeatedly grabbing and twisting a girls boobs so hard that she screamed in pain and kept telling him to stop, but he would not; stiffing a gal on payment for an in-bar-blowjob; several guys running/sneaking out on tabs; and some idiot hitting on my daughter, feeling her up, not taking no for an answer (if I was there, he *would* have been hurt). And any one of those incidents would have been cause for a serious and deserved ass-kicking in any part of the world I have lived in. But none resulted in it. The Thais, to a one, just sucked it up. So, any wonder why they snap? One can suffer fools for only so long before some fool is gonna get it. Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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