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Stickman this week regarding violence .


jitagawn

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So (while mocking someone who is trying to offer the first timers another perspective from the usual one of the smiling, friendly, loving, caring, peaceful, nice, Buddhist Thais who go out of their way to help their farang guests, not to mention their own people) you are basically telling us that since in 3rd world countries there aren't reliable statistics (or there isn't collecting of certain data at all) we shouldn't even discuss or try to analyze the situation using the indications provided by our experiences and the sources available to us.

In other words, if through the network of my relatives, friends and acquaintances I get consistent reports of a (much) increased crime rate in different places, situations and social environments across the country, lacking official data (non existent or totally unreliable), the everyday real life passing before my eyes is meaningless and not worth of being reported not even as a warning...

 

As an example, the fact that the pockets, the purses, the cars and the homes of the majority of the Thais I know/have met are full of arms of any kind isn't a scientific statistical evidence but IS a valid INDICATION of the situation (at least of the situation of a particular subset of circumstances/places) and LACKING official reliable data is certainly WORTH REPORTING.

 

I wonder if you know the sources and the reliability of the data on the 3rd world used by the many international organizations (I mean the big ones, the ones which really count) to elaborate the situation, establish policies, allocate funds...

 

By the way, I'm a STUNNER. Anyone got a problem wit that?

By the way, the war on drugs has been won in Thailand since a couple of years and there wasn't bird flu in Thailand when the EU commissioners were visiting. Anyone got a problem with that?

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Why is it that people are putting down stickman for not providing what they would consider reliable statistics to back up his statements, yet none of them are providing those same reliable statistics they seek to prove him wrong?

 

On a side note, I agree totally that statistics and reality are different.

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Old Hippie said:stay home...

Since this seems to be your standard pre-recorded answer in any thread observing/commenting on any of the negative aspects (no matter how true they are) of Thailand/Thais I really have to wonder, seeing the many long past threads about your problems with the Thai girls, WHY DON'T YOU GIVE THEM UP FOR GOOD AND STAY HOME?

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Weird said:On a side note, I agree totally that statistics and reality are different.

But since in this kind of undependable, corrupt and inefficient 3rd world countries there are NO reliable statistics (or NO DATA at all) "reality" is all we have... ::

 

Jokes aside, this is what I recently posted in another similar thread RE Thai statistics vs US/first world ones:

 

Living in Thailand you should have observed the locals' VERY strong resistance to get the police involved whenever it's possible (since they usually just ADD to the problem). The result is that MANY offences of the kinds listed above are NEVER reported. People feel there is just no point in doing so.

You should also know that even when they are actually involved, MANY offences are dealt with informally (with the proper "fees"...).

When there is nothing for them to gain you may see the cops actually LEAVING the scene of a crime at its onset (seen that many times upcountry especially in the case of street fights) or arriving only when it is all over.

 

In short: in Thailand there is a definite negative drive to report to the police.

 

In the USA, the opposite is true. Besides having a much more thorough distribution of the police forces themselves in the territory, there are many reasons for the people to call the police. Even when they are just bystanders or passersby, in a crowd of people assisting to an accident, a violent scene, a fight, an animated row etc you are much more likely to have somebody anonymously calling the cops (and the cops actually showing up) in the US than in Thailand.

Reporting (which in some cases is even mandatory, especially as the indirect result of having to help/call for help the victims of such offences who are wounded and/or in life threatening condition) assaults, burglaries, car thefts, drugs offences, frauds, murders, rapes, robberies is done in the US for example for insurance reasons, to obtain "restrictive orders" from a judge, to make claims towards govt or private entities/agencies/organizations, to ask for compensations/being repaid of the damage and so on and on or simply because of the much higher chance to get some justice (because of police forces and judicial system overall infinetely more efficient, less corrupt, better ruled by better laws etc etc etc).

In today's America housewives are calling the police because the children won't do the homework!

 

In short: in the US there is a definite positive drive to report to the police.

 

 

Add to all of this the different definitions/classifications applied to the types of offences listes, the trustworthiness of the two different bureaucracies and their different means and human and technical abilities to properly collect, process and elaborate the datas and you can see for yourself how accurate is the picture which emerges from this comparison...

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So (while mocking someone who is trying to offer the first timers another perspective from the usual one of the smiling, friendly, loving, caring, peaceful, nice, Buddhist Thais who go out of their way to help their farang guests, not to mention their own people) you are basically telling us that since in 3rd world countries there aren't reliable statistics (or there isn't collecting of certain data at all) we shouldn't even discuss or try to analyze the situation using the indications provided by our experiences and the sources available to us.

 

RIGHT. THERE SHOULD BE NO DISCUSSION OR ANALYSIS. WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS JUST IMMEDIATELY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT CRIME RATES ARE INCREASING BASED ON THE STORIES THAT WE HEAR ABOUT.

 

In other words, if through the network of my relatives, friends and acquaintances I get consistent reports of a (much) increased crime rate in different places, situations and social environments across the country, lacking official data (non existent or totally unreliable), the everyday real life passing before my eyes is meaningless and not worth of being reported not even as a warning...

 

RIGHT. EVERYTHING IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS, AND IN FACT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WE EVEN EXIST AT ALL SEE BISHOP GEORGE BERKELEY, PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE, PUBLISHED IN 1685 AND AVAILABLE IN MOST BOOKSTORES IN ISAN).

 

p.s. BY THE WAY, YOU MISSED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING I WROTE IN MY PREVIOUS POST. EVEN THE DEFINITION OF A CRIME RATE, AS SHOWN BY WHAT YOU SAY ABOVE REGARDING HEARING ABOUT CHANGES IN CRIME RATES FROM YOUR FRIEND, ETC.....YET THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. A CRIME RATE REQUIRES A NUMERATOR AND DENOMINATOR TO BE CONSTRUCTED....THEY CAN ONLY TELL YOU THE PERCEIVED NUMERATOR, NEVER THE DENOMINATOR. BUT I'M DISOBEYING THE PRINCIPLE HERE......OH YES, RIGHT, NO DISCUSSION OR ANALYSIS SHOULD BE UNDERTAKEN, WHATSOEVER. AND YES, ALL EXPERIENCE IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS....IN FACT, WE DON'T EXIST.

 

p.s. BUT YOU MISSED A MORE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF MY POST. BUT I'LL ONLY GIVE YOU A HINT HERE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE TO WASTE TIME HERE. STICKMAN NEVER MENTIONED ANY LACK OF DATA.

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june11 said:

 

RIGHT. THERE SHOULD BE NO DISCUSSION OR ANALYSIS. WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS JUST IMMEDIATELY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT CRIME RATES ARE INCREASING BASED ON THE STORIES THAT WE HEAR ABOUT.

 

If you had a clue you would have simply used the stickman weekly as an opening point to start a discussion. Instead of coming to conclusions based on what other people have heard down the grapevine(which is all you really have to go by when no statistical data can be obtained), you have chosen to take even a lower point and just disagree for the sake of disagreement without providing ANYTHING with substance to the discussion. *golf clap*

 

And because you forgot to turn off your caps lock you must obviously be correct.

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A good indication of the level of violence in a society is how the media covers the cases. If cutting down random victims with machetes, causing their death, is so ordinary it doesnt even make it as a notice, then I would conclude that this society has rampant violence. I think in any western country such occurences would get extensive nationwide media coverage(maybe except for USA which is more a continent than a country).

 

I have been here a couple of years. I have admittedly not seen much violence myself, but the occurences I have seen have been scary. The ferocity of the violence, specatators shying away rather than interfering, many on one etc. are things I never saw back home.

 

If anything, I guess ignorance is good. Back home you know what is going on. Here many dont. Can end up with such bizzare emotions where someone feel more secure in Bangkok than Stockholm (one poster indicated that).

 

Paillote

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