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What's the minimum money needed to retire in LOS


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"...Hit on good points about the auto industry and airlines screwing their employees..."

 

Don't get me started on this...! As I said, the kid is right, pensions and medical are not guaranteed...we lost ours at United (they screwed with the retireee medical as well), Delta and North west will be losing theirs soon, as did US Airways...I just read that a scary situation for the feds is the inevitabile that GM will eventually dump their pensions and retiress medical onto the feds as well, thus possibly really destroying what little/crappy set up is in place...a growing trend as USA businesses tryto "compeate" with3rd worlders, who have no such things as pensions, retirements etc...

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Totally agree with JJ.

 

At us$ 2000/3000 per month, you can live better than the average Thai, but you won't be living well by first world standards.

 

Also, remember that status is ridiculously important in 'emergent' countries, IMO much more than in our western countries. A nice car per example is a MAJOR status symbol that scores huge points with high quality non-pros women. Of course as a foreigner you have an automatic status upgrade, yet the addition of your own luxury car and of a nice apartment puts you on a level WELL above the other foreigner/middle class local masses. This is valid for many other points.

 

I wouldn't move or retire abroad (in my case in Brasil) to live like a middle-class local. It REALLY sucks ass.

 

 

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Pensions, Social Security, even one's savings are at risk (inflation). Shit, I have been waiting and waiting to get my paultry pension and now after reading this thread I have come to the disheartening conclusion that I might not have enough income for the long haul. But, life is short and if you can live the life you like with the absolute minimum of US $1500/month income, then I'd say go for it.

 

I can't say I have met many very sucessful (money-wise) people, but one thing that does seem to be mentioned in most personal financial books is the tenet, "spend less than you make". I think this should also apply in retirement. A 10% saving rate is what you generally hear. And I would pay yourself first, every month, have that amount of money ($150) go into another account, maybe in another currency or gold. You tend not to miss the money that way and after a while you will feel more and more secure financially.

 

I guess there are more than a few who come to retire in Thailand and sooner or later start making a bit of money even though they had not planned on it. whether it is teaching English part-time, writing, import/export etc. I might do something like this, but I would not depend on it---it would just be a little extra for security. Besides, it might actually be benifical sense it would provide some structure to your life and thereby keep you from just going from bed-to-bar-to-BG-to bed etc. after a while that probably won't feel so "special".

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At us$ 2000/3000 per month, you can live better than the average Thai, but you won't be living well by first world standards.

-----------------------------

Living well is a subjective concept. he whole idea about keeping up with the Jones, car, status, is making me wonder why the point to live somewhere else more affordable, if it's to keep up a system of materialistic values as back home. 'Guess I am different...

 

To live well, i don't need to spend and i don't need a new car. One that runs fine is enough. Most expensive one I ever bought here in SF, was 2900$. Fuck chicks who need to see the cash and status, I ain't playing anyone's game.

 

 

 

one thing i don't get here, and maybe it's mostly about US citizens, but how realizing that 2000$ ain't going to amount like shit in LOS, is going to save you by staying in the US ::.

 

For France, My Mom is now living on 2000 euros a month, plus our wonderful french health system. I do not think she has any budgetary problems.

 

I read OH's post, a general take: I see the result of americans thinking that govnmt is too big, off my pockets, then they are left dealling directly with market forces, and that's what you get, they are stronger than any unions or individals in US, and the trend is less union and less "socialism", as they say here. Brace yourself, freeest people in the world, you got what you wanted! ::

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BB,

 

Thats the irresponsability of youth speaking here..... :(

 

I wish I'd still belong to that group .. youth.

I may be quite a few years younger than you BB but calling me youth? :) As for the irresponsible part, more on that later..

 

 

Saving money is lost money. You might as well spend it.

If you just 'save' and put it in the bank, you are plainly loosing money.

Compare intrest and inflation.

Better to invest in bonds, stocks or shares, at least your vapital will make more than the inflation.

Is that not the whole point ?

 

Saving is losing? In your view yes, but not in mine.

Perhaps you have the knowledge and interest to invest in stocks, shares etc. But I don't have any knowledge nor interest and am perfectly happy with the money being safe in the bank. I'd never want to risk it by buying stocks or whatever since (again) I have zero knowledge.

 

I (we) have a nice business in Thailand which makes good money now and guarantees more than enough for the future.

 

 

And going back to the west as a solution ?

Higher living costs and no jobs ..... good luck to your (lack of) plan.

 

:)

Nicely put.

My age still permits me to find a job in Holland, but I sincerely doubt it'll be the case since my life in Thailand is perfectly under control.

 

P.S. calling me 'irresponsible youth' is uncalled for, don't you think?

You may be twice as old but blaming my age for having a different view on this than you is a bit sad if I may say so.

I've experienced enough in my life and without worrying my ass off and without having ALL and EVERY possible problem covered as others, I DO have enough now and am pretty near sure that I will have enough later as well.

 

So I'm happy to say that I live my life without worries because I know the future is on my side and not only because I'm an optimist by nature.

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the_numbers said:

I think its understood that when most people say "move back to the west" it implies that they need to get a proper job, exhausted their funds here, or for some reason need to make a higher wage after wasting years in LOS :dunno:

 

I could do just that, even in 5 years from now looking at my age, but this will not be the case since my 'plan' (wouldn't want to call it a plan though, more of life style at present) is pretty secure.

My years in LOS have certainly not been wasted years.

:)

 

I understand your point though. And agree it goes for many others.

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Zaad said:

P.S. calling me 'irresponsible youth' is uncalled for, don't you think?

You may be twice as old but blaming my age for having a different view on this than you is a bit sad if I may say so.

I've experienced enough in my life and without worrying my ass off and without having ALL and EVERY possible problem covered as others, I DO have enough now and am pretty near sure that I will have enough later as well.

 

So I'm happy to say that I live my life without worries because I know the future is on my side and not only because I'm an optimist by nature.

 

Please do not take my quotes out of context will you.

I wrote

Thats the irresponsability of youth speaking here.....

 

One thing you do know today is that you will get old, unless unforeseen circumstances.

And that you will need money, cos the government aint gonna pay fer ya.

and I did not 'attack' you perse, I called your whole attitude the 'irresponsability of youth'.

In a later post I even admitted that I was reckless at your age.

 

And as far as not knowing anything about saving, why dont you just do what I did ?

I went and asked the right questions to the right people, and I leaned stuff.

 

But, yes, money on a savings account is just like loosing money..... Ask yourself 2 questions : how much intrest do you get net/net from your savings account ? 1.5 or 1.75 % net ? max ? And how much is inflation today ? 2.3 or 2.4 % ????

So, in the best case, you loose 0.55 % each year.

I hope you get the point.

 

Go to your bank, ask for save investment funds or even government bonds, yield is better than what you have now.

Up to you.

 

BB

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the_numbers said:

 

Some of your points are often valid jj, but not everyone wants to live in fear of financial markets and spend their time monitoring their finances. For some its just a bore :( others its the joy of their life "making money".

 

No healthy fear or appreciation of financial risks now, can translate into constant worry and uncertainty later. I am sure there is many a retired person dependent upon hanouts and charity because they had no fear when they were younger.

 

 

You are obviously into the mentality of money making happiness in your idealogy - truly a die-hard capitalist. I don't subscribe to that mentality and I wouldn't need, nor spend, 10,000US a month in Thailand with a place to live, car, and whatever else taken care of - in the near future. I'm not discussing inflation.

 

I am actually of the mindset that money is one hell of a useful tool that can provide me certain freedoms which can contribute to my happiness. For example I am free to travel to Thailand when I have the time because I can afford to do so.

 

I think 'bling' is digusting and no desire to show material wealth as a symbol of my success.

 

A BMW is a quality dependable car and is not what I woulfd call "bling". A BMW with $50k aftermarket rims is what I would classify as "bling".

 

 

 

P.S. - Third-world is not really a valid term its so dated and condescending in the Wallerstein-ian age of state building. I think its fair to call Thailand a developing economy.

 

Well I guess I could be PC and say "LDC" but "3rd world" does make the tone of my argument stronger does it not? I mean "LDC pussy" just does not have the same panache as 3rd world pussy"!

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and I did not 'attack' you perse, I called your whole attitude the 'irresponsability of youth'.

In a later post I even admitted that I was reckless at your age.

 

Point taken, thanks for clearing that up.

But insinuating that I'm reckless by stating that you were like this at my age is not needed IMO. Enough about that..

 

 

And as far as not knowing anything about saving, why dont you just do what I did ?

I went and asked the right questions to the right people, and I leaned stuff.

 

But, yes, money on a savings account is just like loosing money..... Ask yourself 2 questions : how much intrest do you get net/net from your savings account ? 1.5 or 1.75 % net ? max ? And how much is inflation today ? 2.3 or 2.4 % ????

So, in the best case, you loose 0.55 % each year.

I hope you get the point.

 

Go to your bank, ask for save investment funds or even government bonds, yield is better than what you have now.

Up to you.

 

Thanks for the session on economics. It's economics, isn't it? Sorry never been my forte due to lots of reasons I won't mention ::

Anyways, top priority for me is having a safe place without losing or risking any loss.

Understand your point BB and thanks for the advice.

I might just follow it and buy you a beer from the interest :beer:

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Old Hippie said:

"...Hit on good points about the auto industry and airlines screwing their employees..."

 

Don't get me started on this...! As I said, the kid is right, pensions and medical are not guaranteed...we lost ours at United (they screwed with the retireee medical as well), Delta and North west will be losing theirs soon, as did US Airways...I just read that a scary situation for the feds is the inevitabile that GM will eventually dump their pensions and retiress medical onto the feds as well, thus possibly really destroying what little/crappy set up is in place...a growing trend as USA businesses tryto "compeate" with3rd worlders, who have no such things as pensions, retirements etc...

 

hese Bankruptcy s these days are about restructuring labor agreements and labor liabilitites rather than produtivity issues or corporate bloat.

 

You may be interested to know that the PBGC which collects the premiums and provides the insurance for single-employer pensions in case they go tits up, went from a $10bln surplus in 2001 to a $25bln deficit in 2004. Now what do u think their liability is going to be once the auto industry and airlines get finished? I wouldn't be surprised if you see very soon the Federal govt bail them out or pass legislation to help them recoup losses.

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