JJsushi Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 bonna7 said:While i do see JJ's point, it is exaggerated to say the least. (no offense) 2000+ US$ (after tax) is a decent wage in most European countries (decent, not very good). You will get by on this amount easily in most western countries, even go out every weekend to clubs, pubs etc. Notice how you use the qualifier "get by"? Who wants to "get by"? $2k per month is a below break even wage in my estimation for a single male and sure as hell does not give you any wiggle room or the opportunity to save and invest in the West unless of course you live in the wilderness in Wyoming where you won't have any opportunity to spend it. Now, why wouldn't anyone be able to survive on this amount in Thailand, where everything is a lot cheaper? Provided you have some savings in case of illness (for a plane ticket back home, in most european countries, as opposed to in the U.S, medical care is either free or cost a pittance) you should be more than OK with this amount of money. Once again you use the qualifier "survive". Who the hell wants to "survive" in a 3rd world country while in retirement? The goalis to live a better retirement than you would at home. My idea of retirement is not wearing flip flops, eating street food every night, living in a cinder block studio apt in Pattaya and having relationships with hookers. Okay for a holiday but not the next 40yrs of my life. I am all about improving my quallity of life but not at the cost of my standard of living. Sounds to me that you are basing your outlook on a "present day " view rather than taking a long term view with some forecasting and worst case scenarios.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 sickbuffalo said:You can get all the necessities of life for $2000/month.Any excess would be spent on luxuries. For me the greatest luxury is leisure; not having to go to an office or live the corporate life. I'm not interested in status symbols. I want to convince people I'm poor not rich so they wont try to borrow money from me :: I wonder how far that $2k baht will get you if you get in some legal trouble? Say a TG accuses you of rape or even worse say you are accussed of being a pedophile and someone attempts to shake you down for hush money? It has happend you know. Whether you fight it with a Thai lawyer or bribe the accusser and the police that $2k per month just won't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 With respect JJ.. I understand your thinking and it may not even be unwise to have all these precautionary funds for the gazillion 'what ifs' but I doubt most people take all of these into consideration and focus on the more realistic problems in life. Of course one can be accused of rape or murder etc.. it's a possibility, but you sound like a very pessimistic dude. Everything can happen and even YOU might not have enough stacked up if mother badluck turns to you. I agree that we need to have enough savings for the old day. Scenario's such as health problems, inflation (of beer), metarial damage, little extras for family (grandchildren etc.) should be at least incalculated. I disagree with the pessimistic view on life and all of its possible dangers. I'll make sure I have more than enough for the above, then I'm happy. Call me young, stupid, risky, or just Zaad. My 2 cents (taken from my savings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumsoda Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Well Guys, I've uncovered the answer to this question, that seems to be causing so much debate. Being the caring, sharing kinda guy that I am, I'm willing to spread the word, just so some of you don't spend the rest of your lives worrying and wondering.... I took serious counsel and undertook a major research project on this topic. [Read, I spent 50 Baht out of my 500 baht a month "pocket money" allowance and consulted a very experienced "Reader of the cards"....my Mother-in-law actually] We sat under the shade of the Banyan tree...me drinking Lao kao and momma chewing her favorite beetle nut concoction....boy those red lips look good against the background of the toothless smile... Slowly she turned the cards...and started smiling.....ahh Dumsoda my son...I see money come mak mak......(guess she was talking about her own welfare here, as we'd just arrived.....but I digress..) After several "mulls" of "beetle juice" and a few tin cup swiggs of Lao Kao, whilst at the same time much shuffling and dealing of cards.....we finally arrived at the "magic number".... My son, have many mouth to feed, many Vet bills to pay and many moto cy to fix....and by the way dumb ass...do you know how much it costs to build a 6 million baht house these days???????? O.K....ok...... I work out everything, she says... I think 22,860 per month will cover everything.... That's not bad, I think to myself, O.K. Mum 22,860 Baht it is, I can handle that........ NO, she screams....baht no good...hav to be Lulo's or Ar melican dorra....how you think we can survive on 22,860 Baht....that shit money....you want we no eat..... So, there you have it, straight from the source..... Or to quickly summarise......UP TO YOU Cheers Dumsoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Could you retire on $340,000,000? Thats the jackpot for Wednesday's Powerball. Now, if every member of Nanaplaza would send me $1.00, I'll buy that number of tickets. When we win, we divide the number of people who sent me the $1.00 by $340,000,000. Remember, Western Union is open 24 hours a day to sent that $1.00. Thats my retirement plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickbuffalo Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 jjsushi said: sickbuffalo said:You can get all the necessities of life for $2000/month.Any excess would be spent on luxuries. For me the greatest luxury is leisure; not having to go to an office or live the corporate life. I'm not interested in status symbols. I want to convince people I'm poor not rich so they wont try to borrow money from me :: I wonder how far that $2k baht will get you if you get in some legal trouble? Say a TG accuses you of rape or even worse say you are accussed of being a pedophile and someone attempts to shake you down for hush money? It has happend you know. Whether you fight it with a Thai lawyer or bribe the accusser and the police that $2k per month just won't cut it. That is why its so important not to flaunt your wealth. If people think you're broke they won't try to shake you down. $2000/month actually contains contingency money for emergencies as I live on a lot less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_numbers Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 jj. i understand your response to my post, but would have to dispute your claim[slipped in] about BMW's being good cars - that's just indefensible regardless of the rims they have on them. To me 'bling' factor is sort of nil for a BMW these days given they are just not that expensive and a common sight. I mean for a retiree who wants to show off his cash, a supercar like the new Aston Martin with like 700++hp [haven't been keeping up with names] would be kind of in that category. Philosophically to me the notion of really excessive things is more like a diamond encrusted necklace with your initials Back to retirement. Living in a 'cinderblock apartment' in Pattaya, eating gruel, shagging streetwhores is no dream retirement for most[they are out there]. But that's hardly your sole option if you aren't getting more than 2,000US a month in your old age in this country. With savings buying a property on the beach in a restful town on the Gulf of Siam or Andaman Sea is better for many than anything else in the world. That includes having premium real estate with easy access to top international restaurants its down to taste again jj and these people aren't losers. They are happy people. To explain "PC factor" aside its not so "third world" to live a restful quiet life on a beach, eat like a King and relax in your older years. I mean its hardly a dire situation living in rural Thailand where you are condemned to street food. The country has abundant fresh food at markets throughout Thailand that is better prepared at home if you live outside the capital than at a street vendors wok. If you are pulling in 60K a month you can buy fresh goods to feed 5-6 for a day for 500 baht. Pluse its not hard to hire people to prepare the food as house staff. Now for a digression on beamers as "good" cars. The 318i can be my whipping boy, which are so prevalent here because they were the "cheap model" with accompanying "status" despite the fact they are rotten cars. These models get some of the worst ratings possible for used cars in Consumer Reports of all. Several are even listed in the illustrious "cars to never buy" category by year in a few websites. The bad marks go on to several years of the 5 series and some of the 7's. Barely a Honda on any of those lists. Perhaps its time I retire from this debate as I am ranting about cars. cheers, the_numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Say a TG accuses you of rape or even worse say you are accussed of being a pedophile and someone attempts to shake you down for hush money? It has happend you know. -------------------------------- Not sure this is something in realtion to retirement, maybe living in LOS, but a bit far-fetched to think up a reasonable amount including this. Might as well not spend more time there than the usual vacation. The one thing we have not touched upon, but is in the minds of many, is to calculate what they can have, stop working way before official retirement time and retire there, or part of the year. I agree some may miscalculate then, but has to be weighed against working another 10 years, for ex., reaching a comfortable mark, then drop dead, catch a chronic/debilitating/soon-dying disease (more likely at 60+ than at 50-) or simply feel like you can't do at 60 or 65, what you could at 50, say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Zaad said:and I did not 'attack' you perse, I called your whole attitude the 'irresponsability of youth'. In a later post I even admitted that I was reckless at your age. Point taken, thanks for clearing that up. But insinuating that I'm reckless by stating that you were like this at my age is not needed IMO. Enough about that.. er..... I never insinuated anything...... re-read the posts. the_numbers extrapolated my post stating that youth was reckless, I only replied him that I was indeed reckless when I was young. Where does this concern you ? Have you considered investing in property in LOS ? My sister in law does..... Her first appartment she bought 5 years ago at 260K Bt, rent is 6K per month, value today is 500K. She buys a new one each year now..... And we might do the same later this year.....buying beachfront property down in Hua Hin. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonna7 Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 JJ: The words "get by" and "survive" applies to a person living in a western country. While 2000 $ aint a lot, it is enough to get a decent place to live, eat well and spend some money on leisure every month, as long as you are able to find an appartment that doesn't cost too much. (should be possible if you compromise a bit and move out of the CBD) Now, i actually lived on that amount in Oslo, Norway, which last time i checked are only surpassed by Tokyo and Osaka in living costs. How much it costs to live in the U.S (where the average income is substantially lower than in Norway) i do not know, but it should be possible to have a decent life anyway. Correct me if i am wrong on this one. The point is, all things being equal, why wouldn't anyone be able to get by, let alone have a better lifestyle, in Thailand than in a European country? Your living-standard (in material terms) would actually be better than at home! (things being cheaper) Personally i would not want to live in pattaya for the rest of my life and fuck hookers as a hobby, but the OP probably does, or at least it sounds like it. Granted, you have a point about savings for the future and in case of inflation/bad fortune etc., but doesn't this also apply in your home country? So, if you have say 100.000$ in savings, does it matter if you are in the U.S or in Thailand? Likewise, if you do not have that much, what's the difference? As long as you have enough money for plane tickets etc. in case of medical emergencies and money to buy yourself out of the kind of shit you can find yourself in in thailand, isn't it the same? Got a bit long-winded here, strange as i do not even want to retire to pattaya or the likes, just reacting to the assertion that you need more money in thailand than in western countries... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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