Learning Thai correctly..

[preahko]

I totally second what Hua Ngu said...

 

I speak Lao (the real term for the thai PC term "isaan") quite well and it's like pulling teeth to get BGs to speak it to me. 8 out of 10 of them will never speak it to a foreigner.

 

also, BGs, like other thais (though not as bad as middle/upper clas thais), are big-time "cultural gatekeepers" as we say in the language teaching business. they are hyper-concerned with presenting a genteel and polite image of the great and wondrous thai people (yaaaawn) and speak way more formally with farangs than they should given the social situation they're interacting with you in. now...how they speak with each other is an entirely different matter, and is big-time working class gutter talk, just what you'd expect on the streets of brooklyn or liverpool. but you're not gonna understand what they say to each other anyway until years of studying thai, so why worry?

 

the only problem I can see learning from bar girls is their adopting bangkok thai dialect, or some carryovers from the way they speak thai in certain central thai provinces and in isaan (notice I said the way they speak THAI, not lao (isaan), their home language): this includes things like *always* dropping the "r's" out of words when they should be there for you to learn the "proper" pronunciation of the word. for example, when I was first living thai and lived in ayutthya, I thought for the longest time that the word for "angry" is "kout," when in reality it's "kRout"...but because my girlfriend (who had a high school education, btw) only pronounced it the former way, that's all I had to go on...

 

preahko

[junglesoup]

Hi Preahko,

For a relative beginner what thai dialect would you learn, or who from or from what book.

I mean what would be the most useful way to learn if you want to speak thai that fits into most social situations, and sounds polite and respectful across most spectrums of the social ladder?

You seem to know quite a bit about the finer points of the language. I would like to learn properly and start off in the right direction.

Cheers

[Khun_Kong]

khunsanuk said:

... Me using 'daek' usually results in my wife hitting me , and I have been told there are words more vulgar than that. ...

 

Sanuk!

 

 

555! I just asked the wife:

 

"I can say "tan" for eat, yes?"

 

She says yes.

 

"I can say "gin" for eat, yes?"

 

She says yes.

 

"I can say "daek" for eat, yes?"

 

She hit me!

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Hahahaha

 

Sanuk!

[Flashermac]

I studied standard Central Thai for 6 hours a day, 6 days a week at the beginning. Then I spent 5 years in the north. When I moved to Bangkok, I used to be asked why I had a northern accent.

 

Uh ... I didn't realise that I did.

 

p.s. In Wiengchan people told me I spoke good Lao ... when I was speaking Thai. Oh, well.

[WorldFun]

For male teachers TLA has at least 2 & I recommend them highly.

Previously they were located in the same building as Wall Street on Silum, but in April they moved to Phayathai.

http://tlaschool.com/index2.html

[Khun004]

MaiSabai said:

For male teachers TLA has at least 2 & I recommend them highly.

Previously they were located in the same building as Wall Street on Silum, but in April they moved to Phayathai.

http://tlaschool.com/index2.html

I second that recommendation from MaiSabai.

I attended TLA school in Silom for 3 months, just after I arrived in Thailand.

 

The teachers are well-prepared, the lessons are clear, the classes move along at a lively pace -- and they always start exactly on time.

Class size is small: the maximum in any of my classes was 6.

 

I've tried other language schools in Bangkok -- attending full courses or just visiting and observing.

TLA is the best -- by far -- that I've been able to find.

The TLA teachers are also available for private lessons.

.

[WorldFun]

I was also impressed by the small class size we we're only 3 in my level 1 class although with female teacher

If you say indeed its the best It'll be even more convenient at new location for me to continue where I left off next opportunity I might get...

 

Take care

[Khun004]

Like the OP, I, too, want to learn Thai correctly.

After two years of daily study, I'm only at the second-grade reading level, with a very small vocabulary of just 600 words.

My listening comprehension of those 600 words is fair, about 90%, but my spelling is awful: On a spelling test today I could only manage 77%.

So I am always looking for ways to improve.

However, much of the advice I've read on various forums is well-intentioned, surely, but, sometimes, downright misleading.

preahko said:_ we say in the language teaching business.

Yes, forums like these are casual, informal, speech, but ... sentences starting with lower-case letters? ... convoluted, run-on, subordinate clauses? ... ending sentences with a participle? ... while claiming to be "in the language teaching business"?

At school, I could only manage "B's" in English classes, but, I must say, preahko's English style is very curious.

So I must wonder about his advice for learning Thai.

 

preahko said:_ this includes things like *always* dropping the "r's" out of words when they should be there for you to learn the "proper" pronunciation of the word. for example, when I was first living thai and lived in ayutthya, I thought for the longest time that the word for "angry" is "kout," when in reality it's "kRout"...but because my girlfriend (who had a high school education, btw) only pronounced it the former way, that's all I had to go on.

Even curiouser, "...that's all I had to go on".

Just ask a Thai to spell the word for you.

The Thai word for "angry" contains the consonant "raw-ruuah".

That's the trilled "rrr" sound.

Even Thai's will tell you they are "lazy" to speak that sound, but, if you want to learn correctly, simply ask for the spelling.

 

Okay, I realize that not everybody wants to spend the time to learn spelling with the Thai alphabet.

In that case, almost every Thai-English dictionary will contain the phonetic sound for every word.

For example, Thai-English, English-Thai _ by Benjawan Poomsan Becker, ISBN 1-887521-14-3; price: 425 baht.

For "angry": groot.

The "r" is right there.

 

Okay, I realize that not everybody wants to spend the money to buy a Thai-English dictionary.

For those who don't wish to spend money, there are many, free dictionaries on the web.

Here's one: http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/31461.html

For "angry", groht.

Again, the "r" is in there.

 

I do agree, learning Thai from a girlfriend is not much to go on.

If anyone has more effective techniques, I hope they will post.

.

[preahko]

> For a relative beginner what thai dialect would you learn, or who from or from what book.

 

that's a tough one...education is not the thais' strong point, and that reality extends to the teaching of their language to foreigners. I would say that if people posting here have had success with this TLA place, that's as good as any a place to start.

 

the books out there can be useful...like all the Becker ones...but they're far from perfect and leave a lot of gaps in their explanation of things. more seriously, in my opinion, is their lack of coherent organization by topic, grammar point, etc. everything's just kind of thrown at you, willy-nilly. still, one could certainly get *something* out of them.

 

a good general reference, if you're a self-motivated learner, is the "Thai Reference Grammar" by Higbie and Tinsan. it's quite extensive and systematic, has good examples from realistic speech, and all the examples are given in thai, english and transliteration. but you'll have to plot your own "course of study" with it.

 

whatever you end up using for your basis (for amassing vocabulary, navigating grammar, etc.), my most important piece of advice is practice every chance you get. this is how I've learned all my Southeast Asian languages. mind you, I take this to an extreme: when I'm studying a language, I absolutely refuse to speak anything but that language with native speakers whenever I encounter them, I don't care how good their English is. I know, it gets obnoxious sometimes. but I've learned a lot--and quite quickly--this way.

 

obviously, this gets me lots of speaking practice in thailand, where it's quite easy to experience virtually every facet of life using only thai if you really try. I put my "life where my mouth is" with this strategy, too: e.g. when I go to the doctor, even though I know a given doctor is trained in the West, I refuse to speak anything but Thai with him/her. so I have to learn to understand all of his diagnosis and instructions, or else...! not to mention be able to explain all of my symptoms clearly. and, needless to say, I take this same approach doing everything from buying something in a store to conversations with a taxi driver, etc.

 

sure, Thais want to practice their English. but my answer to that is, they've got tens of thousands of farangs only too happy to speak English with them. with this farang, they're going to speak Thai, period.

 

anyway, that's my approach. I agree it's not for everyone, though.

 

as for mr. smarty pants khun004...haha, if you think I'm gonna clean up my writing, take the time to capitalize sentences, and not leave my participles dangling in a fucking pussy forum, you're nuts, man. anyway, I'm in good company...didn't you ever read the novels of John Dos Passos? he not only dispensed with capitalization but often punctuation as well! heheh.

 

"krout"...I don't think my misunderstanding of the proper pronunciation of that word is "curious" at all; that's when I was first learning thai, and I my girlfriend was the only person I ever heard say it. I didn't try to look it up because I had no reason to doubt that she was saying it less than perfectly.

 

and yes, I am a language teacher--but I teach southeast asian languages, not english. I'm a native speaker of english and can write it quite well when I want to, thank you very much, so I reserve the right to slack off a bit when I'm in the company of perverts and whoremongers (myself included) in a forum such as this...

 

preahko