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Burma, Nepal or Sri Lanka?


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quote:

Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

"Trisuli" means "trident-like", and the town is named after the Trisuli river by which is is located."

Thank you. I have forgotten all of my university Sanskrit except one poem by Sankara.

"The Nepalese girls in Bangkok which you mention are in most cases Nepalese from Burma, who have never ever been to Nepal.

Ah that explains why these speak Burman!

"At the moment there should be no restrictions for Assam and Meghalaya"

Ah very good, I believe it used to be you had to go on an organized tour. Despite the missionary activity you liked it? Perhaps the NE tribals are something like those in Orissa and AP. I found them to be much more friendly, even flirtateous, compared to Hindu/Muslim girls. And the tribal men didn't interfere. I was equally impressed by the arrogantLombadi women who work the cosntruction sites in Bombay etc. An old India hand tells me they are like Romas (gypsies) I don't know...

"The one thing you should under no circumstances miss is a festival called "Bharata Poornima" in Saundatti, Karnataka (ca. 50 km east of Hubli)."

No kidding. I have been trying to find the source of this festival for years! That was before the internet and all I would ever read about is anti-sex trade reports about it. It's my pilgrimage goal to see it.

"During the festival, thousands of young girls are devoted to a particular goddess (Yellamma), but in reality they end up as "devadasis", "slaves of the goddess", or temple prostitutes."

I find this interesting because the pc view of temple dancers is that they are devotees of the god not the priests or any men. My undertsanding is that the devidasis were historically prostitutes of a sort, and that the Bharata-Natyam revived tradition has been apologist about this.

"For more info on the above, type in key words like Saundatti, Devadasis, Bharata Poornima (Purnima), temple prostitution etc. into a search engine."

Thanks, I will.

"The festival is also attended by scores of pimps from the big cities, who haggle with the priests for the best girls. Many of the prostitutes in Falkland Rd. or Foras Rd. in Bombay originate from this festival."

As I'm sure you know Falkland road is a big letdown. I was robbed there and the gals were better elsewhere, such as the co-op building (which I am told is now almost empty what with the popularity of 'cabarat' clubs).

"You can often recognise them by tattoos of goddess Yellamma that they wear on their upper arms."

Can you describe that tattoo? I saw many working girls in Bombay and Calcutta with tatoos. I presumed they were tribal. Thought the yellamma thing was dead.

"Alternatively, you can stay in relative comfort in Hubli (or Belgaum, a little further away) and travel to Saundatti every day by car (ca. 1 hour from Hubli).

Thank you very much for the practical travel tips.

"Incidentally, I don't know of any of this kind of temple prostitution in Nepal; I'd be surprised it if it still exits. They used to perform incredible Tantric rites in Nepal (for example in the Kashtamandap in Kathmandu); see if you find anything under the term "chakrapuja" in a search engine. Very interesting stuff!"

Certainly will. One of my career goals is to video legitimate reenactments of chakrapuja and kumaripuja. Many thanks again.

Namaste, SB
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[ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ][/QB]

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[QB]

Originally posted by winston james:

"Despite the missionary activity you liked it? Perhaps the NE tribals are something like those in Orissa and AP."

Well, actually BECAUSE the Christian influence people there are more relaxed about sex - as is the case in Goa. But the main reason, in Meghalaya at least, is the traditionally matriarchal family structure.

You may be interested to know that the "original" inhabitants of Assam (I put this in quotes, as there's always been someone there before), are the Ahom, a branch of the Thai Yai people to which the Thais belong. These days though, they are largely superceded by Aryan peoples, as is the Assamese language, which is Indo-Aryan, but has some Ahom remnants.

You mention the Lambaris. Interesting people and wild, foul-mouthed women! They used to perform a human sacrifice by burying their victim up to his neck in the ground, and then they merrily danced around him until he died. I hear the women are pretty "loose", but if a relative of hers catches up with you, something similarly to the above may happen to you.

The Lambaris are indeed related to the Gypsies, probably the Roma. Their life-style is still pretty much nomadic. During the Yellamma festival that I mentioned, Lambari women work as water carriers for the pilgrims. There are many Lambari women selling trinkets at the flea market in Anjuna, Goa. Their young girls are damn attractive!

The Yellamma tattoo is a kind of primitive depiction of the goddess, with a kind of wild and uncouth face, some head gear and some kind of strange dress if I remember correctly. I've seen old Devadasis in Foras Rd., Bombay, carrying baskets on their heads with figures of Yellamma, thus soliciting money from the girls. You will see countless such figures in Saundatti.

The devadasis were originally not prostitutes, but worshippers performing "bhakti" - dancing and singing in front of idols, fanning them, and washing them with milk etc. As they performed a service for the gods, they were highly regarded and were often given grants of land or large sums of money. Of course it couldn't stay that way for long - gradually devadasis just became "religious prostitutes".

Basically, religious dogma got twisted to the priests', pimps' and punters' ends. The devadasis of Yellamma have to regard every man as an incarnation of a divine (male) principle and thus they have to spread their leg.

There's more to the story, though: Many poor parents give their girls away to avoid having to pay dowry!

Incidentally, to come back to one of the original services that the girls performed, singing: The well-known Indian singers Lata Mangeshkar and Subhalakshmi are said to be descendants of a line of devadasis. L.Mangeshkar's family hails from Goa, and the Mangueshi Temple there once housed devadasis.

I'm not sure how Bharata-Natyam is related to the devadasis, but there must be a connection - every art in India was originally put in the service of the gods. If you ever get to a place called Banvasi in Karnataka, the former capital of the Kadamba empire, you can see the ruins of a huge "nachalaya", a kind of "dance university" for devadasis. In an old temple in the little town you get a good impression how the devadasis used to put on their performance: There is a round platform near the temple entrance on which the girls danced; there's a hollow underneath the platform and every step of the dance would resound like a drumbeat. Around the platform there are stone pillars, which were polished so smooth that the girls were reflected in them like in a mirror. Quite a psychedelic effect!

Anyhow, this is a fascinating subject, but I'll refrain from writing a lengthy essay here.

Keep up the quest, namaste, SB cool.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

[QB]
Originally posted by winston james:

"Despite the missionary activity you liked it? Perhaps the NE tribals are something like those in Orissa and AP."

Well, actually BECAUSE the Christian influence people there are more relaxed about sex - as is the case in Goa. But the main reason, in Meghalaya at least, is the traditionally matriarchal family structure.

You may be interested to know that the "original" inhabitants of Assam (I put this in quotes, as there's always been someone there before), are the Ahom, a branch of the Thai Yai people to which the Thais belong. These days though, they are largely superceded by Aryan peoples, as is the Assamese language, which is Indo-Aryan, but has some Ahom remnants.

You mention the Lambaris. Interesting people and wild, foul-mouthed women! They used to perform a human sacrifice by burying their victim up to his neck in the ground, and then they merrily danced around him until he died. I hear the women are pretty "loose", but if a relative of hers catches up with you, something similarly to the above may happen to you.

The Lambaris are indeed related to the Gypsies, probably the Roma. Their life-style is still pretty much nomadic. During the Yellamma festival that I mentioned, Lambari women work as water carriers for the pilgrims. There are many Lambari women selling trinkets at the flea market in Anjuna, Goa. Their young girls are damn attractive!

The Yellamma tattoo is a kind of primitive depiction of the goddess, with a kind of wild and uncouth face, some head gear and some kind of strange dress if I remember correctly. I've seen old Devadasis in Foras Rd., Bombay, carrying baskets on their heads with figures of Yellamma, thus soliciting money from the girls. You will see countless such figures in Saundatti.

The devadasis were originally not prostitutes, but worshippers performing "bhakti" - dancing and singing in front of idols, fanning them, and washing them with milk etc. As they performed a service for the gods, they were highly regarded and were often given grants of land or large sums of money. Of course it couldn't stay that way for long - gradually devadasis just became "religious prostitutes".

Basically, religious dogma got twisted to the priests', pimps' and punters' ends. The devadasis of Yellamma have to regard every man as an incarnation of a divine (male) principle and thus they have to spread their legs.

There's more to the story, though: Many poor parents give their girls away to avoid having to pay dowry!

Incidentally, to come back to one of the original services that the girls performed, singing: The well-known Indian singers Lata Mangeshkar and Subhalakshmi are said to be descendants of a line of devadasis. L.Mangeshkar's family hails from Goa, and the Mangueshi Temple there once housed devadasis.

I'm not sure how Bharata-Natyam is related to the devadasis, but there must be a connection - every art in India was originally put in the service of the gods. If you ever get to a place called Banvasi in Karnataka, the former capital of the Kadamba empire, you can see the ruins of a huge "nachalaya", a kind of "dance university" for devadasis. In an old temple in the little town you get a good impression how the devadasis used to put on their performance: There is a round platform near the temple entrance on which the girls danced; there's a hollow underneath the platform and every step of the dance would resound like a drumbeat. Around the platform there are stone pillars, which were polished so smooth that the girls were reflected in them like in a mirror. Quite a psychedelic effect!

Anyhow, this is a fascinating subject, but I'll refrain from writing a lengthy essay here.

Keep up the quest, namaste, SB
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