chuckwoww Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 It's interesting what's going on in the US right now. You've got a lot of people worried about the way the country is heading and you've got the nuke 'em all crowd. Most people are caught in the middle. I hope this upcoming election sends a clear signal about how people think but I'm worried it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 ...and don't try to tell me anything about the innocence of the German people under Hitler. Thomas Mann, from his exile in the US in 1939, let Goethe give a very vivid characteristic of German collective mentality (from "Lotte in Weimar"): "- dass ihnen Dunst und Rausch und all berserkerisches Unmass so teuer, ist widerwertig - dass sie sich jedem verzuechten Schurken gläubig hingeben, der ihr Niedrigstes aufruft..." ...it is really miserable how dear going berserk is for them, and miserable how they fall for any agitated scoundrel, who appeals to their lowest instincts... No genius of Mann's greatness has found reason to say anything similar about America and the Americans. Amazing how Americans here can let a spoiled brat from an over -dimensioned German post war welfare system insult their country, especially given the historical perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirHalberd Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Post: "America has now killed more Iraqis than Saddam did!" (Topic#515873) * This statement is a little misleading! The majority of Iraqis killed in Iraq were killed at the hands of their fellow Muslims! This isn't new news, it's simply a little more history! Saying America did it is a political statement, not a fact! Ever since Islam was created more Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims than all of those killed by Israelis, Americans, British or other "Infidels" - including the two Gulf Wars! Muslims killing other Muslims in the name of Islam has occurred since the time of Mohammad! The greatest threat to an Iraqi's life will come from another fellow Muslim- not Americans or Brits or anyone in the Coalition Forces! If America and the Coalition Forces pull out of Iraq today the killings will not stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirHalberd Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 "It's interesting what's going on in the US right now. You've got a lot of people worried about the way the country is heading and you've got the nuke 'em all crowd. Most people are caught in the middle. I hope this upcoming election sends a clear signal about how people think but I'm worried it won't." * Yes, there is some worry about the way the elections may come out. I am worried that if "Far left Liberal Polticians" run America that they will not take the "War Against Global Terrorism" seriously. When you have politicians running on a platform that they will "bring the troops home," will we REALLY be better off? We have politicians on the left that refuse to even say "Muslim" and Terrorist in the same sentence! So many politicians are running against "Bush Policy" but without any answers of their own to present - other than "I ain't Bush, vote for me!" Anyone who thinks that if America and the Allies pull out of Iraq that terrorist acts by Muslim zealots will stop is completely nuts! Pulling out of Iraq will most likely cause the deaths of MORE innocent Iraqi Muslims and precipitate MORE terroristic acts in other countries! In another war, in another place - Vietnam! Many innocent people died AFTER the U.S. and Allies left SouthEastAsia at the end of that war. The dirty little secret that lefties don't want to recognize is that MORE SouthEastAsians died at the hands of Communists AFTER we left than during the previous 20 years of war! When the Communists took over Vietnam they executed almost 500,000 people outright and threw at least another 500,000 in "re-education" camps; some are still there today! Everyone has heard of the "Killing Fields" of Cambodia, it doesn't matter if you believe that only a couple million were killed or the higher estimates of 4 to 5 million were slaughtered by the Kmer Rouge! In Laos no one knows for sure how many innocent people were killed by the Pathet Lao, some estimates are from 50,000 to 80,000 - no one will ever know! So, if we had remained in Vietnam - far fewer people would have died, on both sides! So, the Allies pulling out of Iraq will not stop a blood bath there and it will not stop world Islamic Terrorism! But pulling out of Iraq will make Al-Qaeda happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Playtheblues! it wasn't quite like that! i had explained that in another thread and I am tired in repeating myself! It has been quite different times, the awareness of war was different! What Hitler did was terrible, if you trying to tell me that all germans have been pro his actions than you have read the wrong books! You've been against him - you've been shot! At his early days he earned the support of the entire population because he brought them jobs and food! Hitler was a dictator and he had control about everything that is building opinions, the radio, the wochenschau (news) on the movies, the newspapers and so on! How are people supposed to know? Of course the majority believes what the radio and the newspaper says! Maybe you put that into your considerations! Nobody hates America as a country, I love the USA, I love New York, there are the nicest and most supportive people I know! I hate The Bush Administration what they did in Iraq wasn't sactionend by the UN nor the Nato. They gave us false reason to invade this country! They destroyed it and brought more instability than before, 650,000 people died! Have you ever lost someone you love? If yes than put this pain times 650,000!!! This is no war, because there was no threat! It is terror. They claim Osama was attacking the US on 9/11, I always wondered how that justifies to invade entire Afghanistan! Having said that, can someone explain me how 2 Airplanes can cause a pancake collapse on two 110 storey towers? What happenend to the buildings core and why did building 7 crash? Why can't I see a wing section at the entry point of the Pentagon! I am far away to be in the know what really happened on september 11th but so is everyone who believes the original story! The sad thing is that everything that is happening right now, War on Iraq, Possible War On Iran, Patriot Act etc... is based on what happnend on this day! I am not a conspiracy supporter, but there are valid questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Yes, there is some worry about the way the elections may come out. I am worried that if "Far left Liberal Polticians" run America that they will not take the "War Against Global Terrorism" seriously. When you have politicians running on a platform that they will "bring the troops home," will we REALLY be better off? We have politicians on the left that refuse to even say "Muslim" and Terrorist in the same sentence! So many politicians are running against "Bush Policy" but without any answers of their own to present - other than "I ain't Bush, vote for me!" Of course you can't pull out the troops right now, actually you should send twice as much to get more control and stability! The problem about the american population the way I see it as a former 1 year resident is that the country is split in half. One half would never ever vote for bush and the other half is easy to manipulate! Bush won over Kerry because of better moral standards! I mean..... what? lol! As long people flashing their tits for jelly beans on jerry springer you don't need to wonder! There are a lot of "simple" people, like in every other country, poor people, stupid people, they are easy to manipulate. I once saw a documentary on serious german network where they claimed that the bush voters make 17% of the american income, the kerry voters 47%, the other 36% is coming from foreigners who aren't allowed to vote! If they would be allowed to vote it was estimated 69% pro Kerry! Probably these numbers aren't very accurate but they gave me an idea about these people who simply ignored everything that happenend starting with the 2000 Election and the bullshit they did with the votes of the black communities! He can just do that and gets re-elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 So, the Allies pulling out of Iraq will not stop a blood bath there and it will not stop world Islamic Terrorism! But pulling out of Iraq will make Al-Qaeda happy! In other words the US is stuck in Iraq until the insurgents/terrorists run out of ammunition. There may even have to be a draft. That's kind of what I thought. Where did you get those numbers for post-war executions in Vietnam? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger_Baby Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Yet another dubious claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 It's interesting what's going on in the US right now. You've got a lot of people worried about the way the country is heading and you've got the nuke 'em all crowd. Most people are caught in the middle. I hope this upcoming election sends a clear signal about how people think but I'm worried it won't. Yes, but the last 2 presidential elections have proven that elections, and the will of the people means nothing...rigging is done/and easy...and so what with what the will/desires of the populis are...sad but true...I am voting ultra liberel (big surprise) just to try and have a balance...that and I want/need pension refoms/protections, and some sort of national health care...the repubs will never give us...normally, I am in the middle, maybe a bit to the right, or left depending on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I am not surprised that you consider reading Thomas Mann (and Goethe too, I assume) is choosing the "wrong books". So did Hitler, by the way. But I am convinced that the healing effects of German culture - the highest standing in the world - and efforts to assimilate it into the people after the war - has contributed to saving the German people from themselves. This was only possible by attaching the post war Bundesrepublik strongly to the Atlantic community, with the help of Marshall money, and the insights and wisdom of politicians like Adenauer - a Rheinländer like Goethe and like the founders of the EU, which is no coincidence. Thanks to this Atlantic link the BRD developed into the best functioning democracy in Europe. During press work in the Federal Republic in the 80ies I had long discussions with leading editors of the press and other media and almost all of them emphazised the importance of this Atlantic link, in contrast to the people of the peace movement (who all hated Ronald Reagan), who almost fatally eroded the SPD under Helmuth Schmidt for almost two decades. A strong neutralistic united Germany flexing its muscle again in the middle of Europe was thus seen rather like a risky alternative, not least considering the extremist mentality of some of the representatives of the "Friedensbewegung"(your thinking reminds me of the movement, CT). Helmuth Kohl managed to maintain the Atlantic link, but it was seriously threatened by the opportunistic Gerhard Schröder. Howevever, Angela Merkel's efforts today to rebuild relations with the US have their roots in the wisdom of the Atlantist among the founders of post war Germany. But under Hitler things were quite different and the worst sides of collective German mentality - so aptly described by Mann - came into force. The fact that the Reich was a ruthless dictatorship does not contradict the reports about the murderous frenzy of German soldiers on the East front and not, on the whole, the support for Hitler of a substantial part of the German people. To quote Guenter Grass: The German's asked for their "Weinachtsmann" and they got him. Or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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