cavanami Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 ...Americans on this board often hit back at criticism of their fellow Americans by asking "What can we do?" and asking others for suggestions. My question is, what have Americans done? Why aren't millions of people out protesting on the streets, defending the US constitution and their rights and freedoms? See you all in Gitmo. Your fate is in the hands of your now all powerful "Commander in Chief". USA RIP. Fidel 1. You are not American, so you do not understand the situation in the USA. You only get a slanted view that the media gives you. 2. Americans go to work, try to make a living to support themselves and their families. This is a full time+ activity, that is why millions are not out protesting. Once again, your frame of reference is what you are *** allowed *** to see from the media. When you see various people protesting, ie. Korea or France, these are usually students, who do not work full time, who do not have families, who have little to lose, etc. So from the US side and viewpoint, it is a very valid question as to suggestions. The same-o, same-o criticism gets old real quick, especially when there is nothing in the way of a valid suggestion. The average US citizen lives in fear of the US government. Protest, get locked up in prison. Now you have to pay bail, hire a lawyer, go to court, lose $$$ for time off work and maybe lose your job. Is this being the best for your family? There are groups, ACLU, that fight against the US gov but even they have become very political and looking to promote their interests first! The world is in sad shape, as is the USA. I see no quick fix and no easy answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 ...Americans on this board often hit back at criticism of their fellow Americans by asking "What can we do?" and asking others for suggestions. My question is' date=' what have Americans done? Why aren't millions of people out protesting on the streets, defending the US constitution and their rights and freedoms? See you all in Gitmo. Your fate is in the hands of your now all powerful "Commander in Chief". USA RIP. Fidel[/quote'] 1. You are not American, so you do not understand the situation in the USA. You only get a slanted view that the media gives you. 2. Americans go to work, try to make a living to support themselves and their families. This is a full time+ activity, that is why millions are not out protesting. Once again, your frame of reference is what you are *** allowed *** to see from the media. When you see various people protesting, ie. Korea or France, these are usually students, who do not work full time, who do not have families, who have little to lose, etc. So from the US side and viewpoint, it is a very valid question as to suggestions. The same-o, same-o criticism gets old real quick, especially when there is nothing in the way of a valid suggestion. The average US citizen lives in fear of the US government. Protest, get locked up in prison. Now you have to pay bail, hire a lawyer, go to court, lose $$$ for time off work and maybe lose your job. Is this being the best for your family? There are groups, ACLU, that fight against the US gov but even they have become very political and looking to promote their interests first! The world is in sad shape, as is the USA. I see no quick fix and no easy answer. 500,000 rally immigration rights in LA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 the legislation allows President Bush or Donald Rumsfeld to declare anyone â?? US citizen or not â?? an enemy combatant, lock them up and throw away the key without a chance to prove their innocence in a court of law. It just wasn't that long ago we were looking down our noses at African nations doing this, shaking our heads that such a thing could never happen in America and wonder how their people could tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 `(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means-- `(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or `(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense. `(3) ALIEN- The term `alien' means a person who is not a citizen of the United States. Sec. 948c. Persons subject to military commissions `Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 IMO it's against the Geneva Convention to define including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces as they can be 2) LAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- The term `lawful enemy combatant' means a person who is-- `(A) a member of the regular forces of a State party engaged in hostilities against the United States; `( a member of a militia, volunteer corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war; or `© a member of a regular armed force who professes allegiance to a government engaged in such hostilities, but not recognized by the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 500,000 protest. 500,000 / 300,000,000 = .17% of the US population protested. .17% is nothing...furthermore, what changed but for things to get worse! The protest did nothing. All too soon forgotten. IMO, all these issues will have to be fought in the US Supremem Court and that takes time and $$$. Maybe the ACLU can fight this...if they can get enough publicity for themselves, otherwise they couldn't give a hoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 If we move back to the Vietnam war the vietnamese treatment of the US soldiers in their prisons: `(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means-- `(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against Vietnam or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the US military forces or associated forces); -------- Soviet Union sent captured german soldiers to work camps as they had entered the country without legal immigration procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTime Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 "Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear." President Harry S. Truman August 08.1950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just to clarify the issue of who this legislation applies to I'll paste a segment of a post of mine from an earlier thread: [color:green]"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct." For an individual to hold an allegiance or duty to the United States they need to be a citizen of the United States. Why would a foreign terrorist have any allegiance to the United States to breach in the first place? This is another telltale facet that proves the bill applies to U.S. citizens and includes them under the "enemy combatant" designation. We previously cited the comments of Yale law Professor Bruce Ackerman, who wrote in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights." The New York Times stated that the legislation introduced, "A dangerously broad definition of â??illegal enemy combatantâ? in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted." [/color] Basically, if the President... sorry, Commander in Chief, decides you are an enemy combatant, then you may be treated as such under this law. As such the law, while dressed up to appear as being applicable only to us non Americans, actually applies to US citizens too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 re: illegals protest immigration crackdown on them When I was in the Army, it was the native born Mexican-Americans who were the most critical of the illegals. There is also a Tex-Mex politician who is fighting against the illegals. Their argument is simply: 1. Illegals make it hard for those of us born here. 2. Why they hell do they think they can come to OUR country and make demands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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