Final Word On Windows XP??

[JJsushi]

quote:

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Originally posted by PvtDick:

If movie and software companies are doing well (and by no means are all of them doing so well), it is only because law-abiding people in law-abiding countries are taking up the slack from the thieves and freeloaders, most of whom are overseas.

If you do not reward creativity and innovation with profits, how can you expect your lives to be enriched by them in the future?

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I am not defending pirating. You really need to take a basic economics course and not believe corporate marketing hype. Your staemetn reminds me of cable TV providers braadcasting commercials that tell consumers that the reason for their higher cable bills is because people have illegal cable boxes!

I do disagree with your thought that companies would charge lower prices if there was less pirating. Companies will always price products according to supply and demand. The purpose of a for-profit corporation is to maximize profit. If there was no pirating of their software do you truly think that Microsoft would lower prices? I seriously doubt if they would especially if the customer is willing to pay the higher price. Name a true competitior to Microsofts OS? I don't think there is one which thus means that don't have to enter into a price war to convince you to buy their product versus a competitors. Could MS sell their software at half the current price and still continue to make a profit? Of course they can! Will they do it? Of course not! To do so would violate the fundamental economics of business.

Through the recent era of M&A and consolidations in the business world there has yet to be a company that has passed along synergistic savings in the forms of lower prices to the consumer. Manager and shareholder wealth may have increased but consumer benefits have yet to be realized. What usually follows is higher prices to the consumer. For example every bank merger I have seen has been followed by increased fees to the consumer in order to pay for the merger and increase profits. The pricing power is in the hands of the company since competition has been reduced.

The only reason to reduce prices in any industry is because the demand/supply schedule dictates so, competition forces u to or the the government mandates it.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by jjsushi:

You really need to take a basic economics course and not believe corporate marketing hype.

...

The only reason to reduce prices in any industry is because the demand/supply schedule dictates so, competition forces u to or the the government mandates it.

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Yeah, so?

After you've been in Thailand for a while you start to see a place like Panthip as the usual Thai crap where worthless, lazy shitbags just sit around eating noodles from a dirty bowl all day making money off other people's work.

No different, for example, from a BG's worthless, lazy, shitbag Thai boyfriend.

See? I wasn't making a statement about economics, I was making one about Thai character and society. And yes I realize that it goes on worldwide, that's not the point either. In the context of Thailand, it's the very epitome of the dark side of Mai Pen Rai, and it pisses me off sometimes!

[Guest]

OK, even if I agree with you that Microsoft would not lower its price if piracy suddenly vanished.

If, as you say, the price is dictated solely by market demand, then you should voice your opinion that Microsoft's prices are too high by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS.

I'd love to have a Ferrari, but I wouldn't buy one even if I had the money because I think they are expensive. Fine, I'll either do without a car or buy one I consider to be of good value. I do not buy a used Beetle from the 60's and dress it up to look like a Ferrari, nor do I steal a Ferrari.

The problem is that Microsoft has created products that are so innovative and so above-the-fold that they have become almost necessities to modern life. Shouldn't a company that developed something so revolutionary be able to make a killing on it? That's the capitalist/American way.

Microsoft's products are so important to my life and my business that I have no problem paying the asking price. If you do, I suggest you try Linux. There ARE alternatives, you know.

As for entertainment software, movies, and music CD's, I don't see how anyone could possibly make a case that these items in anyway a "necessity". They are a luxury item. And like any luxury item, you've got to learn to do without it if you can't afford it or are too much of a skinflint to pay the price. Either that, or you become a no-good-sack-of-shit theif like those who hand out at Pantip.

[JJsushi]

quote:

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Originally posted by TEDBKK:

See? I wasn't making a statement about economics, I was making one about Thai character and society. And yes I realize that it goes on worldwide, that's not the point either. In the context of Thailand, it's the very epitome of the dark side of Mai Pen Rai, and it pisses me off sometimes!

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So tell me how u really feel! Mai pen rai!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by TEDBKK:

Note: I do not work for Microsoft. But Pantip Plaza is simply offensive, represents everything that is BROKEN about Thailand.

Also I hope some day you have the experience of having whatever work you do being reduced to something a bunch of sex tourists pay 100 baht for in some third-world shithole bazaar.

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Hey Ted,

There is a lot more broken in Thailand than Panthip, your attitude for example. I am sure when you go shopping it is never to MBK or Siam Square but always to the expensive shops in Siam Center and demand to buy the real thing. Okay I have got a better idea,when I go back to North America I'll have a friend burn me a copy of the CD (I'm sure you have never done that) and then keep my 100 baht out of the evil Thai economy (those evil lazy bastards trying to make a quick buck instead of getting one of the numerous high paying jobs in Bangkok). By the way can I come and check to see that all the software you are running right now is registered in your name . Save your moral shite for another board.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: V. Calvino ]

[Guest]

Since when did theft become a "moral" issue rather than an out-and-out criminal one?

Would you accuse someone of "moralizing" if they cried foul when pickpocketed by a katoey? Or when sold dodgy gems in a street scam? Or when they were the victim of a badded bill in a bar?

Or is it that theft suits you fine, as long as you're not the victim?

Please note that the katoey, the gem store, and the bill-padding bar all use the same argument you use when you justify ripping off a software company or a motion picture studio: "oh, the farangs have too much money already!"

The hypocrisy numbs the mind.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by V. Calvino:

Hey Ted,

There is a lot more broken in Thailand than Panthip, your attitude for example. I am sure when you go shopping it is never to MBK or Siam Square but always to the expensive shops in Siam Center and demand to buy the real thing. Okay I have got a better idea,when I go back to North America I'll have a friend burn me a copy of the CD (I'm sure you have never done that) and then keep my 100 baht out of the evil Thai economy (those evil lazy bastards trying to make a quick buck instead of getting one of the numerous high paying jobs in Bangkok). By the way can I come and check to see that all the software you are running right now is registered in your name . Save your moral shite for another board.

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Again, I really didn't intend to start a debate about pirating per se. I was making commentary about how when examined from one angle Pantip fits into a larger pattern of BS in Thailand.

But OK, since you went there: Oh, it's too expensive, if they wanted me to buy it they'd price it lower. Oh, they're not losing any money because I wouldn't buy it anyway. Oh, everyone does it, no problem. Oh, the money helps people who can't make money any other way.

In other words, the fruits of labor should be in the public domain, available at whatever price someone can afford to pay; if anyone else gets to have it, I deserve to get it too; the producer should not profit unduly off of their work; work output serves the function of social program. Sounds like communism to me!

My attitude is that people deserve to get paid for and profit from their legitimate work. Is that "moral shite" -- what's broken about that?

And oh yeah, please don't impugn my good name by suggesting that I have high morals.

[Guest]

No question. People should get paid for their innovation, but Microsoft is getting paid for innovation plus the stifling of others' innovation. The only reason they are getting away with it is because Bush is a corporate stooge.

There are no alternatives to Windows. That is it, and they can price it however they want.

As for the people making money from pirating, I probably agree that they really don't deserve it, but hey, whatchagonnado?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shola:

No question. People should get paid for their innovation, but Microsoft is getting paid for innovation plus the stifling of others' innovation. The only reason they are getting away with it is because Bush is a corporate stooge.

There are no alternatives to Windows. That is it, and they can price it however they want.

As for the people making money from pirating, I probably agree that they really don't deserve it, but hey, whatchagonnado?

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I know this thread started specifically about Windows XP, but it's companies other than Microsoft who are hurt by Pantip syndrome.

PS does Apple do a full Thai version of Mac OS like MS does Windows, Office, and soon Windows XP?

[adikgede]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shola:

...There are no alternatives to Windows. That is it, and they can price it however they want.

...

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I beg to differ there are alternatives to Windows, but people are slow to change because they would rather not bother to become familiar with a new operating system. I have been using Linux for almost five years and I don't think that the utility of a computer has suffered by not using Windows. The vast majority of people surf the net and use an office suite such as M$ Office. These areas ar more than adequitely covered by Linux.

Ironically the fact that 95% of the software in Indonesia is pirated makes the price point for M$ products on parity with Linux, thus slowing adoption. Windows XP costs about $1.90 (assuming it is on one disc) and my latest SuSE Linux distro set me back a whopping $5.50 (7 disks). The results of the regional piracy poles were out recently and although countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, and Thailand pirate ~90% of the software they use the financial loss (while significant) pales in comparrison to that (loss) caused in a place like Japan were they rates were about 25%. I don't agree with the manufactures when they say that every pirated software license represents a 1:1 loss. If the manufactures could police their licenses better people would probably start searching for cheaper software, which is abundant. Nonetheless I respect Microsoft, or any vendors, right to set the terms of sale and use, no one is forcing you to buy.

As to whether or not Panthip plaza represents everything that is wrong with Thailand, amusing enough, but no one has made a convincing argument so far, an analysis of Wall Mart and flee markets might also be entertaining.

On another note as far as I know Mac OS 7.6 was the last Thai localized version of Apple's OS. Although I am not an evangalist software translation can be done quite rapidly on Linux assuming the source has hooks for GNU Getext. Ddevelopers in Iceland did all the translation work for Linux in a short period of time after having been rebuffed by Microsoft when they volunteered do the I18N and Localization work for W98. In reality it doesn't take developers to translate software. I used to do it for my wife but it was too tim consuming for just one person, not to mention that it's work for native speakers.

reference : i18n

reference : Iceland vs M$

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Adik Gede ]