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quote:

Originally posted by rictic:

I would say give Jim some time.

I originally thought that Flyonezewall was a twat cos of his original argumentative style. Now having read a lot more of his posts think he is pretty knowledgable about quite a few things going on here, definitely no rose coloured spectatcles.

He mentioned one or two items that I have in depth knowledge of that I thought no-one on this board would know about.

Maybe Jim is going to do the same!!

i had a lot more fun on the board when everybody thought i was a twat, oh, the lovely arguments i got involved...LOL!

concerning jimofarabia, i am not so sure if you are right, i read a few arguments he got involved in at other boards, either they were a clever windup, or seriously scary.

the reason i was asking him polite was that i am not sure where he stands. i'm still not. i don't want to fall for a windup, but some of the opinions he expressed are beyond my level of tolerance.

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quote:

Originally posted by CondomKing:

Come on, you can't be serious!!! How PC do you want this board to be???

Alright, it was an over-the-top post, more designed to at least get people to think about the idea than what I really believe. But just calling it 'being PC' without addressing any of the points is not a great response, where would you draw the line between being PC and being racist ? Khun Sanuk has already said racist posts will be banned, and while I don't think this one deserves to be, it has to be quite near the line. I don't think it's simply being PC police - questions along these lines imply that every Thai women with a farang husband/bf is or was a whore. Seeing as there are quite a few board members married to Thais, I would think quite a lot would be offended by it - look at some of the other posts earlier in this thread.

"Umm, for one thing US/UK aren't generally considered sex tourism destinations, LoS is.

With this in mind, it's easy to see how someone could form the uncritical opinion that all Thai women are for sale. This is ignorant and arrogant, but not strictly racist. It doesn't meet your adopted criteria of racism, since it's rooted in geography and history rather than character or ability. "

Db - Good points as usual. Yes LoS is generally viewed as a sex tourism destination while the US and UK aren't - this means lots of people are going there for the prostitutes, but it doesn't implicate anything about the dental assistants, salesgirls, uni students in LoS, and there's no reason to assume that the 'character' of any of these is any differently to their counterparts in the US or the UK, simply because LoS happens to have lots of prostitues.

"Just for me, I think it's horrid to say, "I hate Arabs and won't drink with them." But if one says, "I'm uncomfortable with the behavior I see in most people who have the typical Arab cultural values and prefer to avoid the places that they congregate," -- well, this might just pass the smell test. "

Perhaps. I'd probably agree overall with your view of it being 'ignorant and arrogant, but not strictly racist'

but it comes pretty close to being racist IMHO.

Thalenoi - I can see your point of view, I don't think insulting gets us anywhere either but on the other hand I don't think viewpoints such as we are discussing here should be able to go unchallenged either.

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quote:

Originally posted by Iaxia:

Alright, it was an over-the-top post, more designed to at least get people to think about the idea than what I really believe. But just calling it 'being PC' without addressing any of the points is not a great response, where would you draw the line between being PC and being racist ? Khun Sanuk has already said racist posts will be banned, and while I don't think this one deserves to be, it has to be quite near the line. I don't think it's simply being PC police - questions along these lines imply that every Thai women with a farang husband/bf is or was a whore. Seeing as there are quite a few board members married to Thais, I would think quite a lot would be offended by it - look at some of the other posts earlier in this thread.


Yes, sorry about my alarmed and agitated response, but I originally started to post on this board because I thought it was a way to share information, ideas and experiences.

I haven't posted as much recently because I am not eager to be judged, criticized, chastised or repremanded about what I think, what I know or what I did, on any board or in any forum.

I still wish that this was a place that I could come to "shoot the shit" with the guys and not be subjected to the scrutiny of those people who feel that my behavior or opinions do not live up to their moral standards.

BTW, I am married to a Thai woman and we get stared at all the the time and people in Thailand always assume that she was/is working in a bar. As I have said before, it kind of goes with the territory and I don't think any of us will be able change the prevailing perception. IMO, better to work on it not bothering you.

As far as "where do you draw the line", I think I'll leave that up to Khun Sanuk. He seems like a reasonable fellow and I trust his judgement. If someone or something really does bother me, I can always post it here.

Right now I'm playing it a little closer to the vest and posting primarily when I can be helpful.

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quote:

Originally posted by CondomKing:

BTW, I am married to a Thai woman and we get stared at all the the time and people in Thailand always assume that she was/is working in a bar. As I have said before, it kind of goes with the territory and I don't think any of us will be able change the prevailing perception. IMO, better to work on it not bothering you.

As far as "where do you draw the line", I think I'll leave that up to Khun Sanuk. He seems like a reasonable fellow and I trust his judgement. If someone or something really does bother me, I can always post it here.

I see your point CK, but the viewpoint that we were discussing is the kind that does bother me, and so that's why I posted about it here. Maybe we can't change the prevailing perception, but if we accept that that perception is at least arrogant and ignorant, that is IMHO a good enough reason for challenging it should it come up here.

And yes, I'd also agree that KS is the best person to decide where to draw the line on these matters. It's probably best to leave this debate now before it starts going round in circles.

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quote:

Originally posted by Iaxia:

Db - Good points as usual. Yes LoS is generally viewed as a sex tourism destination while the US and UK aren't - this means lots of people are going there for the prostitutes, but it doesn't implicate anything about the dental assistants, salesgirls, uni students in LoS, and there's no reason to assume that the 'character' of any of these is any differently to their counterparts in the US or the UK, simply because LoS happens to have lots of prostitues.

I guess I'll play the Devil's advocate a bit here...

I can almost see why the orginal poster would ask that question, while in LOS the average non bar girls generally won't go out and "shag" foreigners for money; the same is NOT true of other "Sex Tourism" destinations.

The year before last I went to Cuba for a little R+R. I did not go into that country believing that I could "shag" almost any girl I met there, but I did leave there with that impression!! Even the parents of these girls are in on it sometimes! A friend of mine met with a "respectable" girl's parents once and the girl given permission to live with him for a week in his "casa particular" (private apartment); everyone involved knew what the score was, and there was no big "crying scene" when he went back home after the week was over... I myself have been propositioned numerous times by store clerks and waitresses. It is EXTREMELY easy to hook up with a non-pro girl in Cuba...

Basically what I'm trying to say in my ramblings here is that someone not familiar with Thai culture and attitudes about sex can easily assume it's the same as other "Sex Tourism" spots, and should be cut a little slack...

My 2 baht...

-=/NN

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quote:

Originally posted by Neon Ninja:

I guess I'll play the Devil's advocate a bit here...


Sorry, off the topic...

I noticed you're from Sarasota...care to swap jobs. It's one of my favourite locations.Would love to live there.We can all dream I suppose.....

Cheers smile.gif" border="0

Roger

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Roger ]

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quote:

Originally posted by rictic:

I would say give Jim some time.

[Flyonezewall]mentioned one or two items that I have in depth knowledge of that I thought no-one on this board would know about.

Maybe Jim is going to do the same!!

rictic

unlikely, my experience of thailand will reveal anything not already experienced by others- or certainly, that could or should be talked about in an open forum- i just wanna be a regular poster, even for arguments sake, since to stray otherwise, will invite censure and defeating the point of whatever you were thereby seeking to achieve- i do think it's a shame, that so long as is is clear you are not deliberately setting out to cause offence, that you constrained in not being able to simply speak your mind- i would have thought this would be the greatest strength of a vital inet board- without this quality, how do you truely know the position of the other, or indeed of yourself- there is a certain senstivity about, partly, i suspect, because some board members are married to thais, and the progeny will be of a mixed race- you cannot have entered into an interracial marriage without at least having considered how you will relate to this fact- i cetainly did, where my japanese wife is concerned- though the age difference is only 5.5 yrs, we redesignated our relationship oto (father)and musume (daughter), rather than man and wife- we did not have any children- this way, we retain a "family" love-

on the subject in question, i think race has very little to do with the tremendous optimism with which you turn up in a foreign country, full of anticipation of sexcapades- which of course actually happens much less in thailand compared to other countries because of the overwhelming presence of the bar scene in the bigger towns- it is a feeling rooted much more in economic disparity- if "toronto canada" was travelling to england, presumably his question will have been framed in terms of where's the best pub to pick up a girl- but if his underlying assumption is that he will score, then i don't see this being a reflection of some kind of racism- and if he had the money in this context, then most women in england will still expect to be paid (drinks/ food/ taxi), and so there is an "almost" equivalent economic bargain, allbeit a non- economic rationale, and wrapped in courtship routines-

either way, so long as there is always a place to sanuk n roll, and i don't care what colour skin she's wearing.......

jOa

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So what is freedom?

As far as I can see there are two kinds of freedom.

Freedom to and freedom from.

Which one is more important?

In the UK you are allowed to form a political party that condemns others because of their race or colour on the grounds of freedom of opinion.

Freedom to

 

I think these people that are bieng targeted should have the freedom to stop this oppresion.

 

Freedom from

So the BNP, the KKK or whoever should be outlawed on the grounds that they are infringing on other peoples freedom.

I my opinium 'freedom from' should be respected and implemented in any decent society

A bit off the subject I know but what the hell.

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quote:

Originally posted by Roger:

Sorry, off the topic...

I noticed you're from Sarasota...care to swap jobs. It's one of my favourite locations.Would love to live there.We can all dream I suppose.....

Cheers
smile.gif" border="0

Roger

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Roger ]

 

Hmmmmm....

Lets see if I got this right. smile.gif" border="0 You live in Bangkok where the women flow like water, and I have to count my pennies here in Sarasota (Where all the old people live) to be able to afford an occasional trip to Thailand (Where I would probably want to live when I hit lotto).

...and you want to live here? Are you mad??

crazy.gif" border="0smile.gif" border="0

-=/NN

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