Just another sad argument for gun control

[Flashermac]

BBC

[bust]

How does a social fabric stop people like this slipping through the net? Australia has a good one and Martin Bryant happened. The pro guns have a point when they say only the bad guys will have guns, so make possession of certain types of guns a major crime, automatic 20 to life, any semi or fully automatic weapons have no place in private hands. Make club membership compulsory for ANY private gun ownership and bring in draconian laws for offenders.

Most armed criminals in Australia use them on each other, the Melbourne amphetamines war is an example, no "civilians" were killed.

Julain good social fabric can sometimes prevent people like this slipping through the net.

 

Martyn Bryant wasn't an unknown factor. He'd been known for many years to the Tasmanian health system. Lack of funds and facilities left him on the streets.

 

Do you suggest a gun amnesty?

 

About 640,000 guns were taken in under the amnesty and buy-back scheme which operated soon after the Port Arthur massacre. Victoria was been the most successful state to call in its prohibited weapons. Before the scheme started the Victorian Firearms Registry records showed that there were about 750,000 registered guns in Victoria. About 210,000 were handed in because they became prohibited weapons. These were mainly military style rifles, semi-automatic and pump action shotguns and .22 low power rifles with 10 shot magazines. About 20% of those guns however were unregistered.

 

Thus 30% of Victorian guns were handed in by the end of the amnesty and this probably represents about a 70% success rate. The situation however in NSW and Queensland was nowhere near as satisfactory. There were probably almost 2,000,000 guns in those two states and we would expect that at least 600,000 would fall into the prohibited categories. Yet no more than 285,000 were handed in. This means that the success rate in NSW and Queensland was below 50%. This is a very serious matter but it's not hard to see why the buy-back partly failed in these two major gun owning states.

 

Victoria had mandatory gun registration for a decade yet NSW and Queensland did not had gun registration on rifles and shot-guns. This means that shooters in Victoria were aware that the Government knew what type of gun and how many guns each of them owned. In NSW and Queensland the government had little idea of these facts and we must presume that gun owners felt they could flout the law in these two states.

 

It's not the guns that kill. You need to remember that. It's the person in possession of the gun and their state of mind. Even law enforcement officers are grossly under educated in fire-arms, and these guys by law are allowed to shoot people. This was a classic example of someone intellectual capacity being allowed to carry a gun.

 

 

As reported earlier this week, some dirt bag who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop in Florida ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

 

A statewide manhunt ensued. The low-life piece of human garbage was found hiding in a wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired and hit said low-life 68 times.

 

Now here's the kicker: Asked why they shot the guy 68 times, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel...get this.

 

"That's all the bullets we had."

 

God bless Sheriff Judd!

[pe7e]

Just think of a world in which the only people that have guns are the criminals and the military. Would that be a field day for criminals?

No need to think, the UK already is such a place and the outcome speaks for itself, i.e. 19 deaths as opposed to nearly 6000 p.a. Most of the 19 deaths were young black on black drug gang related incidents. The chances of an average UK resident being shot are virtually zero, and that is largley due to our strict gun control laws. No laws can remove the threat totally, but the removal of guns from the general population will reduce the chances of a deranged person going on the rampage. We had our own massacre a few years ago which prompted the current gun controls, it's worth pointing out the Dunblaine gunman wasn't a career 'criminal' he was mentally deranged and the guns he used were (at the time) legally owned, licenced and registered. The only solution to the killing of innocents by the mentally disturbed is to get rid of guns from society, and until you accept that, then you will continue to bury your children. Guns have one design purpose and that is to kill, there's no place for them in a truely civilised society, I think the US has many more graves to dig before it see's the light.

[Torneyboy]

That is the exact line our news has taken tonight...why the delay...

[Flashermac]

Comparing the US to the UK makes no sense, since the countries have very different histories. When did the average Brit ever own a firearm -- even a shotgun? In the US, however, firearms are a part and parcel of the history of the country, especially in the west. Both of my grandparents kept pistols in their homes, as did my father. I grew up around them and was firing them by the time I was 11 or 12.

 

Suppose you live in the countryside in the US, miles from any law enforcement officers. Are you going to want a means to protect yourself from criminals or not? Try telling such folks they would be safer turning in their own weapons.

 

Consider that the UK is smaller than most American states. There is a lot of empty space still left in America. Can you say that about much of the UK?

 

Some interesting facts and figures

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/rbsrr

 

"In the year ending June 2005, there were 10,979 firearm offences recorded in England and Wales (excluding offences involving air guns).

 

"This is a 6% increase from 2003/04 and continues the pattern of annual increases every year since 1997/98.

 

"In fact, the current number of firearms offences is almost twice that of 1997/98."

 

"Firearms were involved in 1,206 more serious incidents of violence against the person (other than homicide) in 2004/05 than in 2003/04."

 

...

 

"Also, gun crime tends to be focused in certain areas. Over half (54%) of gun crime occurred in London, Greater Manchester and the West Midlands."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pe7e]

You would be suprised by how many guns were in the hands of the UK population pre Dumblain. I live in a small rural town in middle England and believe me or not, there was a gunshop less than 500 meters from my house selling rifles and handguns of all descriptions, all you needed to buy one was a firearms certificate and these were not very difficult to obtain, provided you did not have a criminal record, and in the case of a firearm, were a member of a shooting club. I have personally owned numerous air weapons as a teenager, and 2 shotguns as an adult. I never owned a handgun myself, but I know at least three people in my circle of friends who legally owned such guns. I totally accept your statement the UK does not have the gun culture the US has and it would be difficult to get the 200,000,000 guns out of circulation, but not impossible. If the US could find the courage to do it, this sort of senseless killing would soon be a thing of the past. Just out of interest, how many board members have actually needed to point a loaded weapon at an armed villain to protect themselves when threatened? (truth not fiction)

[Evel_Penivel]

The day after all the gangbangers, muggers and home invaders, as well as the drug dealers, addicts and smugglers, give up their firearms, I'll give up mine.

 

Evel

[Guest lazyphil]

Before the laws changed here my grand dad, rip, had a great collection of guns, Smiths, walthers (sp!), colt 45, magnum, he was under montys command in the desert rats in north africa, saw untold carnage from tank fire and GUNS....never put him of targat shooting at bisley years after ..

[ChristianTroy]

I look at having a gun or not having a gun a personal decision. I do not like the idea of being told I can or can not own a gun. I think everybody has the right to decide how they will defend themself instead of being told they can not defend themself.

 

 

Like I have said above, I understand the American law about having the right to own a gun for self defense. But who is defending those who are getting attacked by the nut cases. A psychological analysis should be a requirement! Your really want a rapist, a child molester, an extreme jealous fella to be in possession of a gun. I don't!!!

 

I hear you, you don't wanna be told that you can't own one, but if you can't pass a "behavior test" maybe it is better for the people surrounding you. A normal person will always get one, those tests are supposed to filter the nut cases!

[Bangkoktraveler]

Flashermac said "The idiotic assinine logic that banning firearms is going to disarm criminals makes me suspect that a lot of people really need to be locked up in the loony bin."

 

I agree.

 

 

pe7e asked "Just out of interest, how many board members have actually needed to point a loaded weapon at an armed villain to protect themselves when threatened?" I have.

 

 

 

pe7e said "Guns have one design purpose and that is to kill, there's no place for them in a truely civilised society, I think the US has many more graves to dig before it see's the light."

 

I know some people who load their hand guns with salt. I asked one what for? For rattlesnakes. Virtually everybody who owns a gun legally, uses the gun responsibily. Do a google on the State of New Jersey for people with a gun permit who misuse their gun. You will find nobody. New Jersey has one of the toughtest gun controls in the nation but has a violent report in regards to guns. It is the bad guys, known as criminals, who are commiting the crimes. Instead of going after law abiding gun owners, people should be going after criminals.

Shit, the person who committed these murders was a criminal. He was not a law abiding citizen.