Jump to content

Just another sad argument for gun control


..

Recommended Posts

Va. Tech Killer Ruled Mentally Ill by Court; Let Go After Hospital Visit

 

Cho Had Harassed Two Female Students; Officials Concerned He Was Suicidal

 

By NED POTTER and DAVID SCHOETZ,ABC News

 

 

April 18, 2007 â?? - A court found that Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was "mentally ill" and potentially dangerous. Then it let him go.

 

In December 2005 -- more than a year before Monday's mass shootings -- a district court in Montgomery County, Va., ruled that Cho presented "an imminent danger to self or others." That was the necessary criterion for a detention order, so that Cho, who had been accused of stalking by two female schoolmates, could be evaluated by a state doctor and ordered to undergo outpatient care.

 

According to the "Temporary Detention Order" obtained by ABC News, psychologist Roy Crouse found Cho's "affect is flat and mood is depressed.

 

"He denies suicidal ideation. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder," Dr. Crouse wrote. "His insight and judgment are normal."

 

That information came to light two days after Cho, a Virginia Tech senior, killed 32 people and then himself in a shooting rampage on the university's campus.

 

The evaluation came from a psychiatric hospital near Virginia Tech, where Cho was taken by police in December 2005, after two female schoolmates said they received threatening messages from him, and police and school officials became concerned that he might be suicidal.

 

After Dr. Crouse's psychological evaluation of Cho, Special Justice Paul M. Barnett certified the finding, ordering followup treatment on an outpatient basis.

 

On the form, a box is checked, showing that Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness."

 

Immediately below it was another box that is not checked: "Presents an imminent danger to others as a result of mental illness."

 

Authorities said they had no contact with Cho between then and Monday's mass killings.

 

 

This afternoon, NBC received a package they believe was sent to the network by Cho. The package includes photographs of Cho holding firearms, as well as a DVD with video and a letter running several pages long.

 

One of the pictures shows Cho menacingly wielding a hammer. It bears a striking rememblance to a 2003 South Korean film, "Oldboy." The film, an international hit, explores themes of revenge and incest -- themes also apparent in plays Cho had written as a student. However, it is not known if Cho had seen "Oldboy."

 

The letter received by NBC News is described as angry and rambling---expressing hatred for rich people and elitists. It is described as very similar to the letter discovered in the Cho's dorm room. According to NBC news, it states "this did not have to happen."

 

The package was mailed at 9:01 a.m. Monday morning at a Blacksburg, Va post office, sources said. Cho allegedly put the package in the hands of a female clerk before leaving. The clerk told us a little while ago she remember seeing Cho and recalls having to look up the zipcode for New York City's Rockefeller Plaza.

 

It appears that the suspect took the time to mail a package in between his shooting spree---showing a degree of cold-blooded planning.

 

Police obtained the 2005 detention order from a local magistrate after it was determined by a state-certified employee that Cho's apparent mental state met the threshold for the temporary detention order.

 

Under Virginia law, "A magistrate has the authority to issue a detention order upon a finding that a person is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment.

 

Wendell Flinchum, the chief of the Virginia Tech police department, said that it's common for university police to work with state-affiliated mental health facilities instead of on-campus counseling because it is easier to obtain a detention order.

 

"We normally go through access [appealing to the state's legal system for help] because they have the power to commit people if they need to be committed," Flinchum said at a press conference Wednesday morning.

 

Cho was taken to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Va., a private facility that can take 162 inpatients, according to court documents.

 

It's unclear whether Cho went to the hospital with police on his own or was taken there under protective custody, a possibility under the temporary detention order obtained by police.

 

One of the young women complained in November 2005 that Cho, then 21, was stalking her, but she declined to press legal charges against him. Police interviewed Cho for the first time and referred the case to the school's internal disciplinary board.

 

It's unclear whether any action was ever taken by the school, although Edward Spencer, a school vice president, said that it's not uncommon for a complaint never to reach a full hearing.

 

A second woman student, less than two weeks later, told authorities she received disturbing instant messages from Cho, and asked police to make sure there was "no further contact" from him.

 

Police spoke to Cho the next day. They say that shortly after, they received a call from an acquaintance of his, expressing concerns that he might be suicidal.

 

For a third time, police met with him. "Out of concern for Cho, officers asked him to speak to a counselor," Flinchum said. "He went voluntarily to the police department."

 

The student complaints that brought Cho to the attention of authorities came during the same time that creative writing professor Lucinda Roy went to administrators to voice her concern about violent themes in Cho's writing.

 

Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed "extraordinarily lonely -- the loneliest person I have ever met in my life."

 

While the school, citing privacy laws, did not conclusively say that school counselors had ever worked with Cho, they did say that a system for working with outside mental health agencies and local authorities is in place.

 

"Clearly, mental health professionals have a legal and moral responsibility," when a student presents a possible risk, said Christopher Flynn, head of the university's counseling center. "We have a duty to warn."

 

But Flynn also said that signs of trouble in Cho's behavior were not a clear indicator that action would follow. "It is very difficult to predict when what someone perceives as stalking, is stalking."

 

A Loner, Mysterious Even to His Roommates

 

Seung Cho was quiet -- so quiet that some classmates of his say they never heard his voice in three years. His roommates reported he was distant and private, eating by himself night after night, and watching wrestling on TV.

 

Cho's roommates say he obsessively downloaded music from the Internet. One of his favorites was the song "Shine," by Collective Soul, which he played over and over

 

He was early to bed and early to rise, normally in bed by 9 p.m., and sometimes up by 5:30 the next morning. His roommates tell ABC News they would see him in the morning putting in his contact lenses, taking prescription medication and applying acne medicine to his face.

 

"He pretty much never talked at all," said Joseph Aust, who shared a bedroom with him in a six-person dorm suite in Harper Hall. "I tried to make conversation with him earlier in the year. He gave one-word answers."

 

"He pretty much never looked me in the eye," Aust said.

 

In recent weeks his routine had changed. His roommates say he went to the campus gym at night, lifting weights to bulk up. He went for a haircut -- surprising them by coming back to the room with a military-style buzz cut.

 

Aust and another roommate, Karan Grewal, say they were aware that Cho had pursued women on campus. They said he also seemed to have an imaginary girlfriend, a supermodel named "Jelly."

 

Students say he seemed as quiet as ever in the days before Monday's rampage.

 

Trey Perkins, a student who saw Cho during the shooting spree, said it was unreal, "being that close to a monster."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 249
  • Created
  • Last Reply

"He wore sunglasses to class and pulled his maroon knit cap down low over his forehead. When she tried to get him to participate in class discussion, his answer was silence.

 

"Sometimes, students try to intimidate you," Giovanni told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Wednesday. "And I just assumed that he was trying to assert himself."

 

"But then female students began complaining about Cho.

 

About five weeks into the semester, students told Giovanni that Cho was taking photographs of their legs and knees under the desks with his cell phone. She told him to stop, but the damage was already done."

 

Female prof

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where I live in the southwestern part of the USA has laws similar to Virginia. My State's law requires gun buyers to go through a state-based criminal background check in addition to the federal NICS check. This is the best system since it includes checking both state and federal records to prevent criminals and other prohibited people from buying guns. Normally this takes less then 5 minutes.

 

Apparently, nobody put this nut case into the system - hence he was able to buy a gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This guy was a dangerous wacko, yet no one was willing to do anything. His English prof warned the uni after seeing the violence in the plays he wrote, but the uni decided to do nothing. Why -- because he was a minority student? Would they have done something if he had been Caucasian? Somebody effed up ... probably a lot of somebodies. This doesn't so much show a need to me for more gun control, but rather for more nutcase control!

You can place some of the blame on Ronnie RayGun and his gutting of the mental health system in the 80s. Now there is little in place to help these folks.

 

Ooo, I just spoke ill of the neo-con god. I'd better watch my back LOL! Can't let a little truth get in the way of idol-worship.

 

Cheers,

SD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently, nobody put this nut case into the system - hence he was able to buy a gun.

What error? The paperwork issued asks if you are a nut case :doah: . There is no checking of that and he lied. Gee, go figure (another :doah:). Nobody fucked up. The system did.

 

Waiting periods are good. Nobody NEEDS a handgun immediately, unless they are up to no good. Fact.

 

Regards,

SD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Is Israel the bastion of peace and harmony on the planet? Nope. Not by a long shot."

 

The argument was good, in Israel it happens that civilians shoot assillants on a killing spree . I can think of a palestinian during a specific jewish wedding but there must be many more instances. It seems over the top that nobody was equipped to neutralize that bloke in Virginia.

 

On the opposite of israel, you get France where it's *very* difficult to carry a weapon legally, even though one is frequent target to criminals. We had two armed robberies in my building in two years, many acquaintances were robbed as well. Several killed during those robberies although not personnal friends. Yet if police or customs finds us carrying a gun we're going through large problems.

 

Police forces might have their use in a civil society but they definetely can't protect everyone all the time and individuals should be able to defend themselves.

 

Ask those dead students...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suadam said [color:red]"What error? The paperwork issued asks if you are a nut case . There is no checking of that and he lied."[/color]

 

 

Yes there is checking unfortunately not all agencies report to the proper facilities. In this guys case, he should have been reported several times.

 

Where I live, the law reads "Does not suffer from mental illness and has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution." It is this reporting from the mental health providers that caused the problem.

 

 

[color:red]"Waiting periods are good. Nobody NEEDS a handgun immediately, unless they are up to no good. Fact."[/color]

 

Where do you get your information? Were I live, it takes about 5 minutes to get cleared to buy a handgun. I am confident that the buyers who get cleared by the Feds and the State are 'up to good'.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<< Where do you get your information? Were I live, it takes about 5 minutes to get cleared to buy a handgun. I am confident that the buyers who get cleared by the Feds and the State are 'up to good'. >>

 

 

When I was a teen in California (a few years ago :( ), there was a minimum 3 day waiting period following purchase. The logic was so that say a husband pissed off at his wife and vice versa couldn't rush out, buy a pistol and go home to blow dear spouse away.

 

I can see how computer records can speed up a background check considerably, but I doubt these waiting periods have been removed. Problem is the laws do vary so much from state to state and maybe even county to county.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Arizona, we just fill out a form which gets faxed in to the Department of Public Safety and we have to also show a picture ID and then in abut 5 minutes or less, an answer is given back.

There are some ther States that process gun sales the same way. Now if a person has a concealed weapons permit, the process is even faster.

 

As far as nut cases getting guns, I can't remember that ever happening here, probably does.

 

All I have is a shot gun loaded with rubber pellets. I have had hand guns in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...