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Just another sad argument for gun control


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The US will never be like Europe .

 

We can only hope...hehehehe...sorry, had to do a little payback for the anti yank stuff..joking of coure.

 

I keep saying this but America is so vast and the different areas where guns are plentiful have different aspects to them. I grew up in an area that had a lot of guns...legally and illegally (inner city) and I went to uni in an area (small town deep south) that had just as many guns and my sense of personal safety was complete opposites. I would suggest the state where I went to school had the same sense of safety one would have in Switzerland or Finland where guns are plentiful.

 

Guns are a local issue, that's why NYC has one of the strictest gun contol laws and Mississippi doesn't.

 

Its now known that this guy was detrmined. Guns made his need to kill a lot of people easier but he would have found other means if he was denied a gun permit. Home made bombs, serin or some other kind of chemical weapon, would have done as much if not more damage. You can't deter a determined killer. Tim McVeigh...Bin Laden...didn't need a gun. They use machetes in parts of Africa and wipe out small villages with them.

 

Agree its cultural though. Maybe one day it will change but right now its too imbedded in our culture. Interesting thing is there are expat Brits at my local pub where I watch football games and more than a few of them are proud gun owners and never thought they would be. Some of them don't own a gun or ever will but chose to live here and do not feel threatened by the plethora of guns in the states versus the dearth of them in England. State of mind maybe but its how it is.

 

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http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/TheCaseForGunControl.html

Interesting Stats here.

My argument against universal gun ownership is that accidental fatalities seem to be so much higher in gun owning households. I mean you rarely hear of someone accidentally killing themselves or someone else with a hammer or a baseball bat. And human nature being what it is people leave guns lying around... what's the point in locking it up? It's got to be there when the bad guys come through the door.

I suppose it comes down to whether the risk of attack by intruders out weighs the risk to your own children when they decide to play with Daddy's gun.

Nice quote here.

"By our readiness to allow arms to be purchased at will and fired at whim; by allowing our movies and television screens to teach our children that the hero is one who masters the art of shooting and the technique of killing... we have created an atmosphere in which violence and hatred have become popular past times" - Martin Luther King, November, 1963

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I don't diagree with the fact that guns in a home will increase the chances of bad things happen. Are there any stats on guns that were used as deterrant and stopped crimes? I've heard it said its more than we think and its under reported. Not sure how accurate that is but I've heard pro gun advocates discuss it. Still, its a right we have and like other rights it carries a burden as well when misused.

 

 

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Letting everybody carry guns seems to be the best answer the NRA can come up with.

 

I'm interested in how arming students or teachers would prevent the V.Tech kind of shooting. What happens if the designated shooter cuts class or leaves his gun in the locker during PE? And wouldn't the crazy guy(s) shoot the armed student before he starts on the others?

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During the 60's, laws were passed to keep guns out of off schools and colleges. These laws seemed to have been passed to curtain the protesting going on campuses, especially when the protesting turned to rioting.

 

But before that time period, some students and teachers did carry guns on to campuses. As far as I can remember, none of them misued their guns.

 

Were I live, gun stored don't get robbed.

Stores with well defined policies claiming they will not intervene during a robbery and prohibit employees from having weapons, get robbed all of the time.

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I don't think there's any doubt gun stores don't get robbed. Somebody would have to be suicidal to try it.

 

I'm still not sure how it would work in schools though. How many students should be armed per classroom do you reckon? What kind of guns should they bring to school? How much ammo should they carry? What if the crazy guy takes unarmed hostages. What if he just says heck with guns and brings a bomb?

 

Having armed security guards on campus makes some sense I guess but they probably couldn't respond fast enough.

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We all agree that there are reasonable limits on the first amendment, so why can't we agree that there are reasonable limits on the second amendment too?

 

Regards,

SD

 

There are limits on the Second Ammendment. No one is allowed to own a fully automatic weapon w/o a hard to get federal licence - which gives the feds the power to search your home at any time w/o a search warrant! (Nutters like Hank Williams Jr have one so they can collect WWII submachine guns, something Hank Sr used to do.)

 

Also, sawn off shotguns, rifles and carbines with very short barrels etc are completely banned. The same goes for armour piecing rounds, which no civilian has any need for.

 

but the Supreme Court has a habit of chipping away even at the US Constitution. Somewhere in the future, expect firearms ownership to be subject to many more restrictions. Still, the anti-gun groups go overboard with their demands and thus tend to get nowhere. They are generally controlled by loonies who offend people, rather than getting them on their side.

 

 

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Chas, believe it or not some high schools in the US these days do keep a pistol locked up in the administrator's office. A few schools even authorise the vice principal (= assist headmaster) to carry a concealed weapon. This came about as a response to situations where an armed lunatic or two went wild, as at Columbine, with no one able to stop them.

 

Arming students is assinine and only the sort of nutters who call radio talk shows would come up with such an idea.

 

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Gun shops get robbed in Australia.

 

http://au.msnusers.com/AustralianBikers/x3.msnw

 

Bike gangs have stolen guns

 

October 26, 2002 -

Handdguns stolen in the state's largest gun shop robbery have allegedly found their way into the hands of outlaw motorcycle club members. Some of the handguns have been seized from bikers in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney. police sources said. Most of the 500 handguns and spare parts stolen from the Peterborough gunsmith were shipped interstate for sale, with "just a few dozen" falling into bikers' hands in SA, they said. One of the weapons found in SA was in the possession of a Hell's Angels member and one found in Melbourne was in the possession of another member. Several have been seized in Sydney - one being used by a Gypsy Joker member to shoot another man. "We knew at the time they were destined for the black market because of the sheer number that were stolen," one source said. Police investigations into the Starlight Firearms robbery at Peterborough in July, 1999, are ongoing. Two balaclava-clad thieves escaped with just over 500 working handguns and 250 partial guns and gun frames from the store. Included in the haul were 350 semi-automatic handguns - including .9mm Glocks, Lugers, Berettas, Mausers and Walthers. A further 130 revolvers - including .357 Colts, .9mm Astras and .9mm Berettas - also were taken. There have been no arrests in connection with the robbery but police have several suspects. The investigation revealed one Adelaide gunsmith was selling some of the handguns. The man was charged with firearms offences after police stopped his car and found a variety of weapons. Detectives had information he was delivering one of the Peterborough handguns to a Morphett Vale house. Police have put a submission to the State Government recommending gun law changes to thwart traffickers. Their recommendations will form part of the discussions at next month's Police Ministers Council meeting in Darwin. Operational police are concerned that some offences - such as possession of a firearms part - are treated too lightly. They want such offences upgraded to enable other investigative tools, such as telephone intercepts, to be used against suspected offenders. Police Minister Pat Conlon, concerned at flaws in some states' laws, will raise the issue in Darwin. "We are trying to get a consistent national approach," he said. "What we hope will be on the table is a reference to the NCA on the trafficking in illegal firearms which would give us access to that range of powers under federal legislation. "We have been pressing the Commonwealth, particularly through better border control, to stop entry into Australia of illegal weapons," he said. "The states pay for 97 per cent of the policing in Australia and the entry into Australia of illegal firearms is a major increase in the cost of policing."

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