Luktung/Morlam venues in Bangkok?

[samak]

Samak, i'm sure you know more about this topic than i do, but i always thought Morlam was rather Lao orientated. In fact my wife usually refers to it as Lao music and she's from Korat. But maybe more from the "depths" of Isaan e.g. Nong Khai etc? As Korat is rather on the fringes.

Simie.

you are of course right; and despite Korat belongs to Phak Isaan it is not really Isaan (Korat dialect is pretty different to the rest of Isaan and so are the cultural roots!)

 

[preahko]

Real interesting read preahko. Couple other thoughts. Keep in mind the largest ethnic population of Laotion people in the world is in Thailand, not Laos! During the Vietnam war the US built huge infrastructure and road systems to there as they were worried Isaan might split off and join Laos.

 

Sting (used to describe pop music in my experience) is certainly the most popular in Bangkok. But in Isaan, it's pretty solid Maw Lum / Luke Toong in my experience. Typical karaoke places don't even have Sting to choose from. In the North they do listen to this though not so much and I have heard them refer to it as "Isaan music".

 

Some of the tell tale signs to identify Maw Lum is wavering voices, dancing chorus girls with extravegant feather outfits, singer in silk costumes, stringers of Thai baht notes on the singer, and the music tends to be upbeat. Luke Toong is more mellow, lots of flute sounds, more of a big band sound and for some reason ends up reminding me of the Lawrence Welk show.

 

Yes, good point on the higher popularity of String in Bangkok as opposed to other parts of the country.

 

Haha, as for the huge numbers of Lao in Thailand (yes, you're right, especially if we're talking about people who speak Lao as their FIRST language, it's roughly ten-to-one: about 2.5 million in Laos, close to 20 million in Thailand!), part of the reason that is so is that the Thais conquered Laos in a war in the early 1800s and forcibly dragged tens of thousands of Laos across the Mekong into dry and barren Isaan (parts of which had previously been part of the old Lao empire Lan Xang), so they could control them better. And that was the *second* time they had done that (the first was in the late 1700s).

 

In fact, the early 1800s war (started by the Lao king Chao Anou) had as its original purpose the taking back of the Laos relocted by the Thais (to Saraburi) in that earlier campaign. He failed, the Thais totally destroyed Vientiane (including every Buddhist temple save one, and killing Buddhist monks), and displayed King Anou like an animal in a cage in Bangkok before executing him. So much for "respect for Buddhism and the monarchy."

 

Ahem. Anyway...

 

The differences you describe between luk thung vs. morlam (instrumentation and show style) may have been strong and distinctive as recently as the 80s, but since the 90s and continuing to the present day, the two genres have strongly influenced each other, so elements of everything you describe are plentiful in both genres now...

 

preahko

[birozen]

luk thung, by the way, is also characterized more for specific features of its singing style than for anything else (music, etc.). and let's not even get started on "luk krung," the "urban" version of luk thung, or sa-tring ("string"), the modern catch-all used to refer to everything from hair metal to schmaltzy pop ballads to...??

 

luk thung has made a huge resurgence since the late 90s; previously it was mostly looked upon as the music of country bumpkins, now it's very popular among a wide range of people...though no music in Thailand today is more popular probably than String. complex and interesting topic.

 

preahko

 

Lukrung is not an urban version of luktung as it's themes, styles of singing and instuments differ substantially. Lukkrung never uses Lao instruments or the themes of luktung and is purely romantic music. It's history and followers are another world compared to luktung, it also predates luktung by a couple of decades.

Luktung has not had a revival since the late 90's where did you get that idea from? It has had a resurgence since the time of Pumpuang and Sayan Sanyar in the late 70's. Both honored by royalty, before their time it was looked down on but that's ages ago.

 

[preahko]

luk thung' date=' by the way, is also characterized more for specific features of its singing style than for anything else (music, etc.). and let's not even get started on "luk krung," the "urban" version of luk thung, or sa-tring ("string"), the modern catch-all used to refer to everything from hair metal to schmaltzy pop ballads to...??

 

luk thung has made a huge resurgence since the late 90s; previously it was mostly looked upon as the music of country bumpkins, now it's very popular among a wide range of people...though no music in Thailand today is more popular probably than String. complex and interesting topic.

 

preahko[/quote']

 

Lukrung is not an urban version of luktung as it's themes, styles of singing and instuments differ substantially. Lukkrung never uses Lao instruments or the themes of luktung and is purely romantic music. It's history and followers are another world compared to luktung, it also predates luktung by a couple of decades.

Luktung has not had a revival since the late 90's where did you get that idea from? It has had a resurgence since the time of Pumpuang and Sayan Sanyar in the late 70's. Both honored by royalty, before their time it was looked down on but that's ages ago.

 

You're right, luk krung came first, I re-read my original post and it looks like I was saying it came after luk thung, it didn't. but I disagree that they have nothing to do with each other. as far as luk krung "not using Lao instruments," I agree (if we were going to compare it to something in the West, it would be big-band music with vocalists)...and neither has luk thung had anything to do with Isaan or Lao instruments for much of its existence, the influence/merging of luk thung and morlam are relatively recent things.

 

as for the late 1990s resurgence of luk thung I spoke of, and its [relatively] newfound widespread respectability (the earlier heyday of Pumpuang notwithstanding)...besides my own observations and reading, my info is from the many articles I've proofread on luk thung in the 80s and 90s written and published by my Thai ex-girlfriend, who's currently writing her PhD dissertation (for a Western university) on Southeast Asian pop music, which I'm also currently proofreading...

 

preahko

[preahko]

luk thung' date=' by the way, is also characterized more for specific features of its singing style than for anything else (music, etc.). and let's not even get started on "luk krung," the "urban" version of luk thung, or sa-tring ("string"), the modern catch-all used to refer to everything from hair metal to schmaltzy pop ballads to...??

 

luk thung has made a huge resurgence since the late 90s; previously it was mostly looked upon as the music of country bumpkins, now it's very popular among a wide range of people...though no music in Thailand today is more popular probably than String. complex and interesting topic.

 

preahko[/quote']

 

Lukrung is not an urban version of luktung as it's themes, styles of singing and instuments differ substantially. Lukkrung never uses Lao instruments or the themes of luktung and is purely romantic music. It's history and followers are another world compared to luktung, it also predates luktung by a couple of decades.

Luktung has not had a revival since the late 90's where did you get that idea from? It has had a resurgence since the time of Pumpuang and Sayan Sanyar in the late 70's. Both honored by royalty, before their time it was looked down on but that's ages ago.

 

You're right, luk krung came first, I re-read my original post and it looks like I was saying it came after luk thung, it didn't. but I disagree that they have nothing to do with each other. as far as luk krung "not using Lao instruments," I agree (if we were going to compare it to something in the West, it would be big-band music with vocalists)...and neither has luk thung had anything to do with Isaan or Lao instruments for much of its existence, the influence/sometimes merging of luk thung and morlam are relatively recent things.

 

as for the late 1990s resurgence of luk thung I spoke of, and its [relatively] newfound widespread respectability (the earlier heyday of Pumpuang notwithstanding)...besides my own observations and reading, my info is from the many articles I've proofread on luk thung in the 80s and 90s written and published by my Thai ex-girlfriend, who's currently writing her PhD dissertation (for a Western university) on Southeast Asian pop music, which I'm also currently proofreading...

 

preahko

 

[Encore]

When the thesis is finished, could you please put a link here, so we can read it. there is so little english language material about thai music, I'm sure many peopel would appreciate it.

[birozen]

 

Don't believe everything you read on thai music/issan culture even if it is in the form of a thesis. I have read some appalingly mis leading work, especially by thais at USA universities. The only reliable sources are few and far between, thai or falang. I must try to find a link in US that sells such work on line as some of it is interesting if overpopulated with wordy socio babble.

[birozen]

Sorry If I might have seemed a bit abrupt-donâ??t have much time on the internet at present. I too would be very interested in reading any thesis on Thai music. The problem I have seen with the few I have read is that the students have been lazy when it comes to â??researchâ?? and rather than do any field work seem to rely on libraries and the bloody internet rather than original investigation.Often they seem to repeat sources without question as I saw last year. I read a student thesis from a Thai at a university in Texas who had quoted the work of a professor from KK University on Lam Cing. This book is one of the few well researched books on Morlam that I have ever seen because the author spent two years solid visiting Morlam troupes talking to dancers, singers, producers and recording shows. However the student quoting his explanation of the structure of a Cing performance had not bothered to check that the information was years out of date and that Cing had progressed into something quite different in some respects since the time the book was written yet was happy to present the information as current, just sloppy.

 

What I would like to see in any work on Thai music is a discussion about the corruption and power of Thai recording companies, even singers with a bit of a grudge are, understandably perhaps, reluctant to talk about this dark side of the Thai entertainment business.

Here are a couple of examples of this that happened to some of the most popular singers, so what the lesser ones have to put up with must be worse. Siriporn Ampaipong struggled for years to become a success, she had two albums released on a long forgotten label that did nothing and the third planned one could not go ahead as the owner ran out of cash. He suggested she went to another company (PGM) who released a tape including Bo rak si dam, now know as one of the most popular songs ever released. However at the time the major Morlam label was powerful enough to block the playing of this song on any radio station in Thailand, they also managed to ban a contemporary hit of Honee Sri Issanâ??s called Nam ta lon bon khop tiang. This comes from Siripornâ??s biography and even now she will not say what the label which organized the ban was, happily in the end these songs became so popular that the ban crumbled. Many singers change labels complaining of poor treatment from recording companies and recently Nok Pornpana was sacked out of hand by Mastertape for not telling them she did a concert on the side. Now Jintara Poonlap has left them to record with RS so Mastertape are screwed as far as I can see as they only have a kantrum act left, serves â??em right.

 

Getting the real fact about luktung music is not as simple as it seems, companies inflate CD sales figures radio companies make ludicrous claims about the effect they have had on the growth of luktung (assume for advertising) Singers have even been killed by rival business interests as was the most famous ever male luktung singer in 1968. As with many things Thai there are rumours of other causes, but I heard from a family member it was business conflicts which did for him. This is like Elvis having been shot dead by Tamla Motown.

 

My advice to any Student doing a thesis on Thai music is to do some real field research, talk to singers, dancers, stage hands, producers, visit a few hundred concerts etc. They cannot do this sitting in a library in Texas or wherever.

For any lovers of Pumpuang her son Phet can be seen at concerts at the moment, not a great singer but he looks like her-quite a thrill to see him singing her songs on stage. Of course there are rumours about her death which persist to this day, just another part of this smoke and mirror entertainment business which makes it so fascinating. Perhaps if it could be all laid bare in words it might not be so amazing, rather like Thailand itself.

 

[LeicesterCollAsianAlum]

birozen-

 

Are you in Thailand at the moment?

 

I think that there are a few places we could go where you would love the music. My treat....

[birozen]

Quite a few concerts on despite the rainy season. Last Sunday there was an all day one at the Bangkok Hall in Lumpini with a host of singers, best performances were by Seri Rungsawang and Rung Sareeya, ting nang tang ning is always great to hear. One of Rungâ??s dancers is no longer with him now being Fon Tanasunthorns girlfriend. Ajareeya Bussaba was also there along with some big names from R Siam label including Jeab Benjaporn and the sensationally popular Bowee both from the south. Seems to be a good number of southern singers around now. Boweeâ??s khon mai gap ruwa is an enormous hit now and the sound is interesting in almost having a string backing but still luktung. Sunaree was also there as was Mike Piromporn, now he and Jintara are in Israel for concerts, must be a lot of Thai workers there. Sunday there is a concert at the Mall Bangkapi in the day including rock and string. On Monday Monsit and Fon are having a concert in the afternoon (according to Sure Audio), if anyone interested where send me PM. Lots of concerts on Sunday of course being mothers day.

On the idea of luktung being much more popular now than in the late 90â??s I still donâ??t see this being reflected in concert audiences, in fact crowds for Morlam shows are normally far larger, even in Bangkok. Also the number of Cafes has declined as has the number of TV shows. The daily Twilight Thai luktung and star show are no more. Veteethai struggles on under different sponsors but now is barely an hour long. Seang tong show is still around but only one hour a day on Thurs and Fridays. There are more recording labels than there were and more singers trying to make a living at it. Whether this means itâ??s far more popular or they all have a smaller slice of the cake I donâ??t know. The large number of singers who had there own tour bands has also declined dramatically, maybe Thai's prefer to watch TV these days?