Man at Work Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Hi, No, a lot of people here were far from polite, and I am seriously disappointed in the crap that went on in this thread. Interesting to see how people get all worked up when someone takes away their opportunity to get another fix. Sanuk! I know I was one of them and I aplogise for that (to the board - not the OP!!). It is not the fact, that I can not smoke where I want to, that makes me furious. It is the way some denouncers (especially visitors to LOS) sneak their information (favoriable anonymous) to the authorities. If a goverment makes a law, let them enforce it. We do not need vigilanties to do that for them. We have the same situation here in Krautland nowadays: People who were once banned from a pub/bar etc. are now seaking around it ever so happy to call the law, if they see people smoking in it. Just imagine if someone, who you banned from here, reports your site to the authorities if some dickhead would post something not according to Thai laws. How would you feel. Us Krauts have a bad history with those informants from 1933 - 1945 (and in parts of the country even until 1989). I just hate their guts. And with that I will stay of the topic and behave. Promise! MaW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paillote Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Neither am I very sorry for my words. I called the OP a hyppocrite since he said he was calling the cops because he ment the law should be followed and it should be a level playingfield among the bars. But when it comes to nudity the level playingfield is no concern. He has no intentions of calling BIB about the bars showing. Neither has he respect for the law when he is using the services of prostitutes. If that is not a hyppocrite what is? I also asked why he cannot stick to the majority of bars that are smokefree, and leave the few smoking bars alone. Of course he did not answer that. He is not happy until every bar is smokefree, regardless if he has to go there or not. I call that a fanatic. If you dont like country music, dont go to a country bar, if you dont like Japanese food, dont go to a Japanese restaurant. As long as you have a choice, go where suits you, and leave others with a different view to go to different places. Paillote - Who personally prefer smoke free bars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghelseth Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 I'm so sad I'm not getting an apology from MAW and Paillote. Imagine how much it would mean to me. BTW, Coss, thanks for the welcome, but I think a hazing into your little sorority is probably closer to the mark. Lets take MAW's argument first, wherein he draws a parallel between reporting Jews to the Nazis in prewar Germany with calling a government sponsored no smoking hotline in present day Thailand. Being born into a racial/ethnic/religious minority is in no way comparable to choosing to acquire a habit that causes others in the vicinity to be forced to breathe your used smoke. Anyone who can't understand that has apparantly had some of his brain arteries clogged from smoking. And lets face it: Most smokers want to quit, and have tried before. Its a tough habit to break, this law may help. But it is hardly comparable to racial or religious prejudice, no matter where you're from. Which brings us to Paillote, who isn't very sorry either, again bringing me sadness. His argument is that I am a hypocrite, since, in his opinion, I use the services of prostitutes and enjoy nudity, neither of which he has any idea about except this speculation, which seems to be all that is required to pass for reasoned thought here. In any case, I could care less if there are nude girls in bars or prostitutes available there as well, because those things don't have any affect on me. A dek serve in a bar last night asked me why I was reporting her bar, because she said there was smoking in all the Nana bars. I told her I am only affected by the smoke in this one, and I'm not going to run around checking every other bar. BTW, if you want to hang out in Cactus with those fuglys just to be able to smoke, be my guest. I spent a very enjoyable, smoke-free night at Cowboy, with no smoking in any of the major bars I was in. I will repeat what I said before: The bars had years to set up smoking areas, none ever did. Even now they are allowing smoking "Because the other bars do, and we don't want to lose customers." If you want to get blind drunk and stagger in front of a bus, that doesn't affect me, go for it. If you want to get blind drunk and drive on the same road I'm on, it does, and if I see you weaving across the center line, I will call the cops. Thats not a great analogy either, but its a lot closer than either MaW or Paillote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paillote Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, if you would have bothered to reflect a little on what i wrote you would understand I called you a hypocrite for what you say. I have no problems with your choices of activity or other preferences, but you said you want to report smoking due to respect for the law and level playingfield. If you said you would report them due to selfish reasons, then I would have labeled you different. Selfish maybe, but at least consistent... And in the last post you expose yourself as an even bigger hypocrite. To quote you: "I could care less if there are nude girls in bars or prostitutes available there (Nana Plaza/Cowboy)" So why do you go the places that has exactly this on offer? For the music? Hypocrite... Paillote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghelseth Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 OK, let me clear that up for you. You seem to be having a difficult time distinguishing between activities that negatively affect others and those that don't. I am not affected adversely one bit by nudity, usually happy to see it, and of course thats why I choose to go to venues with it on offer. I am, however, very adversely affected by second-hand smoke in the venues I choose to frequent, with or without nudity. Exhaling pollution onto others is now against Thai law. If it is enforced equally on all venues, that will be great. Leveling the playing field isn't about respect for the law, its about not giving an unfair fiscal advantage to those bars that cheat and bribe. Smoking has been always been extremely rude and has never been an individual right, as some on this board seem to think. Quite the opposite, it is my right to breathe the cleanest air available in this city. And it is now your legal obligation, if you smoke, to do it in an approved location. Selfish? Not nearly as the years of selfish smokers stinking up every room they smoke in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekong Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ghelseth, I will be polite in this reply and just state simple facts, if you can accept my viewpoint I will apologise to you for the things I have said in this thread, I was attacking the messenger whereas I am against the message The basis of your argument is the fact that by law all bars and entertainment venues should now be smoke free, a simple mistake for a johnny come lately to make. The alledged law was made by an unelected military regime that over throw a democraticaly elected goverment in September 2006. Laws made by a dictatorship whilst the country is under military rule and that have not been passed by the majority of the elected representives of a democractic goverment are in fact not laws as such on the statute books. This is the basis of the legal argument being upheld by some of Thailand's most esteemed legal experts, can a decision that is made by a unilateral military dictarorhip make it into statutorary law once that the dictatorship has been disposed off? As I have mentioned on this, and many other threads on this topic, I have no problems with non-smoking establishments, if I choose to go to one I will abide by the restrictions impossed, but conversely their is also the right of owners of establishments to decide whether or not they allow smoking on their premises. How far does one take this argument of percieved right and wrong? In Thailand there are many bars which are openly Homosexual and others where majority of the "Girls" are Ladyboys. To some people that floats their boat to others it may disgust them but it is quite easy to avoid such places and allow all walks of life to co-exist each within their own enviroment. I respect the rights of non smokers to have a smoke free enviroment for them to enjoy an evening out, conversely could you not also respect the rights of smokers to be allowed to have a haven where they are allowed to indulge in their addictive habit? It is all about freedom of choice, it is far better to have known smoking and non smoking establishments and the customers are allowed to choose for themselves rather than to have a carte blanche decree handed down by an unelected military regime. This argument goes a lot deeper than smoking, it is about the erosion of civil liberties, if goverments were serious about health issues they would classify nicotene as a class A drug but they won't because of the revenue they reap from taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 OK, let me clear that up for you. You seem to be having a difficult time distinguishing between activities that negatively affect others and those that don't. I am not affected adversely one bit by nudity, usually happy to see it, and of course thats why I choose to go to venues with it on offer. Ahhh, you at least admit it. You're a selfish cunt. It is all about you. If you listen to some NGOs, then the who prostitution/gogo scene is populated by girls who are forced into it. Maybe some are. I'm not sure. Can you be sure they are not? I have provided links to WHO docs that show environmental smoke is NOT a health threat. How can you be sure it is not true? It is a very reliable source. Who do you believe? I know, whichever suits your prejudices, cuz it's all about you. And you wonder why you don't get on well in LoS... A bit of free advice mate: if you continue to mess with a Thai's rice bowl (fer Christskaes, if you're gonna do this, don't tell the Thais what you are doing!), expect to read about yourself in Thai Rath. Not a threat, really, just a friendly warning because you do not seem to get how things work here. See, I'm a nice guy, don't only think of myself, and would hate to read about you in the paper and listen to people in threads here complain how dangerous Thailand is because some poor innocent farang got the snot beat out of him... Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 <> prostitution is healthy? you know i hate smokers but your a bad advocate for anti-smoking. maybe yo haven't heard of std's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghelseth Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I agree with everything you have said, except the part about bar owners getting to choose to allow smoking. Under the law, they no longer have that right. While the no smoking law was passed by the military government, I expect, if it is challenged on that basis, it will be passed again by the current parliment. Remember, government has 2 vested interests here. One is cig tax revenue, which probably isn't too high given the low price of cigs here. Second is limiting health costs, which is especially important when the government is paying for all health care. I expect the legal issues will sort themselves out, and maybe the health ministry will be given enforcement power. And I'm all for having smoking areas, maybe even smoking bars. But as a selfish cunt, I don't want smoking in the bars I am in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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