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Phrases in Thai and Issan language


Tiger Moth

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Hi Flashermac,

What's your view on the history of Isan and Laos?

The map from www.savannanet.com/lao-isan.jpg , a Lao website, says that "France gave away Laos territory (Isan) to Siam in 1907" which seems to agree with the Geocities page.

Thanks >>

 

 

The claim is absolute BS. When was Isaan ever France's to give away?

 

The Kingdom of Lan Xang (which had included Isaan) had broken into fragments and by the late 17th century all of Laos was part of Siam. The French colonialists in the 19th century hoped the Mekhong River would be a path to the China trade and began taking over the Laos regions on the north of the Mekhong River. The Thais weren't strong enough to resist France, though there was a fascinating brush when the French declared a blockade of Bangkok in the 1890s and almost came to a clash with some British Royal Navy ships over it. Pity they didn't. Might had had a war then and there, which could have possibly prevented World War I.

 

What happened in the early 1900s was the French made their last demands on Siamese soil, taking land on the "Thai side" of the Mekhong (near Ubol and the present Sainyabooli Province of Laos). Loas was seperate from Isaan, not Isaan from Laos. The Thai monarchs did begin population transfers from the "French" side, figuring if they couldn't keep the land they'd at least keep the people. That's one reason Isaan is so heavily populated and Laos is so underpopulated (2 million in Isaan vs 5 million in Laos).

 

Here's the Wikipedia take on it:

 

<< After the Khmer empire began to decline from the 13th century, Isan was dominated by the Lao Lan Xang kingdom, that had been established by Fa Ngum. Thereafter the region was increasingly settled by Lao and Thai migrants. Siam held sway from the 17th century, and carried out forced population transfers from Laos to Isan in the 18th and 19th centuries. Franco-Siamese treaties of 1893 and 1904 made Isan the frontier between Siam and French Indochina.

 

In the 20th century a policy of "Thaification" promoted the incorporation of Isan as an integral part of Thailand and de-emphasised the Lao origins of the population. This policy extended to the use of the name "Isan" itself: the name is derived from that of IÃ…?ÄÂna (Sanskrit: à¤?शान), a manifestation of Shiva as deity of the northeast, and the Sanskrit word for northeast. The name therefore reinforces the area's identity as the northeast of Thailand, rather than as a part of the Lao world. Before the central government forcibly introduced the Thai alphabet and language in schools, the people of Isan wrote in the Lao alphabet. Most Isan people still speak the Isan language which is closely related to the Lao language. >>

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaan

 

p.s. I've been told by several Isaan natives, "We used to be Lao, but now we're Thai." Isaan is really in no different situation that the former Kingdom of Lan Na (capital Chiang Mai). The Laotian communists made demads for Isaan to be "returned" to Laos in the 1970s, but the Isaan folks told them to sod off. The "mountain Khmer" in Surin and Buriram also have no wish to be annexed by Cambodia.

 

:dunno:

 

 

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"p.p.s. All I can figure is that the French "giving away" Isaan in 1907 means the French recognised it as belonging to Siam. As I said, how could the French give up something they'd never had?"

 

Yes, it could just be badly written. As you say, what they meant (maybe) was that France recognised Isaan as belonging to Siam. And Isaan had been been a part of the Lao Lan Xang kingdom in the past.

 

"p.s. I've been told by several Isaan natives, "We used to be Lao, but now we're Thai." Isaan is really in no different situation that the former Kingdom of Lan Na (capital Chiang Mai). The Laotian communists made demads for Isaan to be "returned" to Laos in the 1970s, but the Isaan folks told them to sod off. The "mountain Khmer" in Surin and Buriram also have no wish to be annexed by Cambodia."

 

I saw the same recently on a Lao message board. Some Lao posters were asking the Isaan posters if they wanted to be reunited with Laos, but they made it clear they were Thai now and quite happy the way things were.

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<< (2 million in Isaan vs 5 million in Laos). >>

 

:doah:

 

I meant 21 million in Isaan!

 

I was here when the war for Laos was still going on between the royalist-neutralist party and the communists. I remember students from Isaan saying: "They have their king and we have ours. We are Thai."

 

Also, the Laos sort of forget that extreme western Laos had been part of Lan Na - the Chiang Mai kingom. France just took by force when the Thais were unable to resist.

 

p.s. Thais tend to regard the Isaan folks as country bumpkins. Ironically, in Isaan they feel that way about the Laos. :)

 

 

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DDDave,

 

The Suay language you are referring to is spoken by the mahouts/elephant owners/handlers up here. I'm not sure where it comes from, but my family cannot understand more than a few words of Suay. Lao speakers, and Thai they are. They understand a little Khmen, not much. I'd like to know more about the origin and history of Suay myself. Anyone?

 

Cent

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I'm not sure where it comes from, but my family cannot understand more than a few words of Suay. Lao speakers, and Thai they are.

 

Thanks Cent, now I feel better. :)

In the missus` village there is an elderly lady who finds great enjoyment in only talking suay to me thus leaving me in the dark. Glad to learn that I am not the only one. :)

 

cheers

hn

 

 

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