Help with distressing personal situation

[Faustian]

I'm not so sure, Faustian. I'm close to someone with schizophrenia so I know a bit about it too. It's true that going to a meditation centre is never going to bring on schizophrenia in itself (so that's just coincidence) but she seems to have most of the symptoms down pretty well. And she may be 30+ but the OP hasn't told us how long he's known her. It can come and go in episodes over years. I'd try to find out whether she'd had any episodes before.

 

OP, depends how much you really love her. It's a lifetime illness with no cure. Medications are getting much better and control the illness but, often, if not checked, the patients stop taking them after a while (because they feel better ) and then they relapse. Those episodes are not fun. And what you're seeing is just the very start. Imagine her becoming a different person with a knife or rampaging down the street shouting, naked. You not being able to sleep at nights. You never know what she's thinking or what's talking to her. Eventually, if it is real, she may have to be committed at some stage for a time. Etc, etc, etc. That could happen every 6-7 years or so. In between, with modern medicine and compliance, she could be OK-ish.

 

But still not fun.

 

Indeed, it is episodic and I agree with you that this is likely to be an episode. It is highly unlikely to have just suddenly develop like this.

 

Some useful links.

 

http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/Helpline1/Early_Onset_Schizophrenia.htm

 

From wikipedia (which backs up my earlier point, there would've been a decline in her functioning)

 

[color:black]Prodromal phase[/color]

The prodromal phase precedes the active phase of illness by many years. It is characterized by negative symptoms such as social withdrawal, deteriorating grooming, unusual behavior, outbursts of anger and other subtle changes in behavior and emotional responsiveness.

[edit][color:black]Active phase[/color]

Psychotic symptoms predominate in the active phase. Onset of the active phase generally occurs between the late teens and early thirties. Onset can be acute, occurring over weeks, or gradual, occurring over years. A particular stressor (such as moving away to college) may precipitate onset. The age of onset has prognostic significance.

[edit][color:black]Residual phase[/color]

Negative symptoms predominate in the residual phase (similar to the prodromal phase) although affective flattening and role impairment may be worse. Psychotic symptoms may persist, but at a lower level of intensity, and they may not be as troublesome to the patient.

 

Iink; http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

 

From having read about this more, it seems some women can develop the illness later in life. My main concern is that your girlfriend wasn't showing any symptoms, then is diagnosed ill, following a week of being with a monk.

 

Certainly meditation is considered bad for those with schizophrenia it seems...

 

http://www.doctorndtv.com/DoctorNDTV%20Show/detailTopics.asp?id=19

 

DrNDTV: Does meditation work in schizophrenia?

 

Dr. Desai: In the active phase or symptomatic phase of schizophrenia, meditation should actually be avoided because the central inner phenomenon in schizophrenia is that the person is lost in the inner fantasy world, cut off form the external reality. So, meditation is likely to take the person further into the internal fantasy world.

 

There's lots of information about this online. It seems that those with schizophrenia shouldn't meditate. Has she had episodes before?

 

As regards what you do with her, if you want a dependent relationship, where you are unlikely to be happy, then go for it. The children issue is interesting I guess it would be nice for them, but what about your life/happiness? Are you really able to sacrifice all for others? Can you divorce this lady later on and her children continue to receive this financial benefit?

[Faustian]

I just wanted that the impetus for seeing the Psychiatrist was my g/f totally flipped out for a period of about 2 hours. She exhibited bizarre behavior several times during this period. One incident will make the point: she looked me right in the eye and said Buddha was sending her on a mission and she would see me in 4 years.

 

When the bizarre behavior ended after 2 hours, she was perfectly aware of what had happened and refers to her behavior during that time as "crazy".

 

Subsequently, we saw the Psychiatrist who explained to me that my g/f had begun to hear several voices during her time at the meditation center. The Psychiatrist also cautioned me that she might never be the same again.

 

It seems likely that she had some underlying mental health issues previously then...and the meditation really did bring it to the fore. I've read around a bit on this now, it might be that she will return to normal....it might not. Interesting link (not sure of its validity)

 

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing23.html

 

So, back to you then....what are you going to do? Do you feel obliged? How much do you love this lady? These are things only you know. Asking others wont help much I'd suggest.

 

[DarkCloud]

It seems likely that she had some underlying mental health issues previously then...and the meditation really did bring it to the fore. I've read around a bit on this now, it might be that she will return to normal....it might not. Interesting link (not sure of its validity)

 

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashin g/bra...

 

So, back to you then....what are you going to do? Do you feel obliged? How much do you love this lady? These are things only you know. Asking others wont help much I'd suggest.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Interesting article.

 

Of course I agree she had some previous underlying mental health issues.

 

Not back to me - that was the point of the original post. If I could have sorted this out on my own, I would have. I am immersed in the situation and emotionally involved. Asking uninvolved others for objective thoughts/opinions/considerattions is appropriate.

 

And, in the end, I will decide. For now, thoughtful input is welcomed.

[DarkCloud]

Dr. Desai: In the active phase or symptomatic phase of schizophrenia, meditation should actually be avoided because the central inner phenomenon in schizophrenia is that the person is lost in the inner fantasy world, cut off form the external reality. So, meditation is likely to take the person further into the internal fantasy world.

 

Well, this has not been the case for my g/f. She is no longer hearing voices and is not delusional (I am not entirely conviced this is 100% true but think likely that a significant reduction has occured (as observed by the Psychiatrist we have seen).

 

Additonally, there is a forum for people who have been schizophrenic and are taking the same medication as me g/f. Many report great success and normal lives for many years.

 

 

[Faustian]

Meditation or medication? Did you mis-read?

[shygye]

[color:green]Without the potential for her children to receive the US Social Security benefits (now 99% sure and will make this 100%), I will not marry her.[/color]

 

What made you think the kids would get Social Security benefits upon marriage? The survivor benefits only kick in when you die. You don't have to be the biological father but the legal father, ie you have legally adopted the kids.

[Khun_Kong]

I was in a 9 year live-in relationship with a woman who had 2 children when I met her, ages 11 and 9. About 2 years into the relationship (we were both practicing Buddhists), we did a series of workshops called "Insight" that were similar to EST and other New Agey seminars.. There was a child/teenage series offered after ours and the 11 yo attended. I think it was about a week of the intense inner focus that those workshops specialize in.

 

Within 2 weeks of finishing, she was a distinctly different child, somewhat starry-eyed and vacuous. She would go to school and wander off campus, sit on the front porch staring at the night sky for hours, that sort of thing.

About 3 weeks after the seminar, she left school, went home, drank a bottle of floor cleaner, left the house and collapsed at the nearby 7-11.

 

We went to the hospital, where she was completely delirious. The doctors told us that she said she had been told to drink the floor cleaner and that she appeared to be severely schizophrenic, although it was too soon to make an official diagnosis (complicated. I won't get into that here, except that it's frequently a diagnosis of omission.)

 

GF was distraught, very much in denial and insisted that it couldn't be schizophrenia. Part of the reason was that daughter had always appeared to be OK- perhaps a bit flaky and happy-go-lucky, but never, to us, displaying signs of serious mental instability.

 

I was more open to the diagnosis. Daughter never really got better and actually became significantly worse. Over the next 7 years or so, she was institutionalized numerous times, spending a total of several years of her teen years in mental hospitals. Various medications were used, mostly without success. I don't even remember the name of the last best medication she ended up with, something new at the time, but it allowed her to just barely cope with life, live in a secure, monitored facility and work a simple, menial, non-taxing job. She ballooned into a grossly overweight young woman.

 

Daughter was actually fairly happy when she was in the deep clutches of the disease, believed that she was married to Michael J. Fox and just visiting us while he was busy making a movie. In hindsight, we remembered that we had just returned from a holiday in Southern California, where we visited Hollywood Studios and Disneyland, Daughter had done a bit of rating about Fox and life in Hollywood, but we just took it as typical 13 yo imagination. We also recalled an incident where she punched a hole through the wall of her bedroom, but wouldn't/couldn't tell us why. After her diagnosis and another half dozen holes, we knew why- she was trying to get to the voices behind the wall that wouldn't stop talking to her. Saddest thing was when the medications would work for awhile, she would return to almost normal and cry her eyes out during the brief lucid period when she realized how ill she actually was, before returning to her happy delusions.

 

Point is, we were both professionals, caring and present parents and it wasn't until after things got serious that we were able to look at incidents in the past and realize that she actually had exhibited many symptoms, but they just seemed like things a goofy young girl might do. Perhaps if you reflect back a bit, you too will see some of those symptoms. Also, daughter seemed to go over the edge after a program of intense self-introspection, as your girl did.

 

GF ended up becoming the head of the state National Alliance for the Mentally Ill and fighting a monumental and precedent setting case involving the states' having to treat mental illness as a disability, as any other illness and therefore qualifying for benefits.

 

I believe that my GF's initial refusal to accept the diagnosis and then her intense, unstopping devotion to fighting for the rights of the mentally ill is what led to our splitting up. She really gave up everything for her daughter.

 

This was about 12 years ago. Still makes my eyes tear to remember our weekly visits to the nearby children's mental hospital, where daughter was mostly kept in isolation, literally in a padded cell with almost nothing in it and bars on the windows, seeing all of the children in there and realizing that ours was one of the worst.

 

It is truly hard to see the physical body of the person that you loved and to know that that person no longer lives in that body, but is gone, probably forever.

 

Good luck. My heart is with you.

[DarkCloud]

Meditation or medication? Did you mis-read?

Sorry, I apparently did mis-read the Dr. Desai part.

[DarkCloud]

Khun_Kong,

 

Wow, very sad situation for your ex and her daughter (and you of course).

 

I mentioned that I had had to take care of someone when I was in my 30's. I was a single parent to my teenage son who was doing drugs and getting into all sorts of trouble. He gave up the drugs, is now in his 30's and I just attended his wedding a few weeks ago. Prior to attending the wedding, I had to look back on our relationship, consider his life and current situation and try to prepare myself to help make his wedding a great experience. I needed to do this because I knew that for years I had been limiting contact with him because when I saw him I would take his being obese as a mental health problem (eating instead of taking drugs to deal with life's difficulties) and I would recall the sadness of his teenage years (again, during those years, I didn't take his doing drugs and getting into trouble as bad behavior, I simply thought he was having trouble dealing with life and did drugs to escape. So, my reaction was primarily sadness.

 

I hadn't directly connected my feelings with my son and my present experience. Also, when raising my brother and sister, I was also sad for them because of the way our father was (he was alive during those years but died about 15 years ago) and because of the loss of our mother.

 

So, my understanding of my reaction to my current situation was simply that I had had spent enough time in my life taking care of other people. But, having read your reply, I am more aware of the difficulty in seeing someone who had been "normal", no longer being themselves. And I can see the link of my feeling sad for my younger brother and sister when they were children living with me, my feeling sad for my son and his difficulties in dealing with life and his response (previously doing drugs, now, obesity) and now feeling sad for my g/f who is aware and laments that she is not the same as before.

 

I am no longer a young man and given my past, do not feel I have it in me to spend years trying to help my g/f cope with her illness and feeling the sadness that goes along with it. Yet, I also don't feel I have it in me to abandon her. Thus my early statement that if I did continue with her I would need to have a mia noi or take frequent trips alone - that is to say, I simply don't have it in me to cope on a full-time basis and would need to "escape".

 

I hadn't mentioned this but my g/f has had physical changes as well. Her face is not the same - swollen, puffy. She used to have a very good complexion but now has pimples. She has put on weight. I could deal with the physical changes if she were mentally OK. As I write this I realize there will not be a happy ending to my situation no matter what I do and I am reminded of the old expression, "there is no joy in Mudville tonight". I still don't know what to do but, I do know I don't have it in me to marry my g/f and commit myself to years of looking out for her.

 

Anyway, sorry to hear about your experience and most sorry for your ex's daughter. Hope your life is going well now.

[DarkCloud]

What made you think the kids would get Social Security benefits upon marriage? The survivor benefits only kick in when you die. You don't have to be the biological father but the legal father, ie you have legally adopted the kids.

 

I am not quite at the age whereby I can receive Social Security and haven't done sufficient research. I have a friend whose child does receive Social Security benefits - however, my friend is on disability. And, I met someone who was involved with the US Embassy to arrange Social Security benefits for 2 children he had fathered. He was not married to their mother because she had no identification papers whatsoever having fled another country. They required him to submit DNA samples to prove the children were his. But, he may have been doing this for survivor benefits for the children. Anyway, yesteday, I read a guide published by AARP and a Social Security publication (which was very confusing since among other things much of what was stated included different conditions for different countries with different treaties with the US, etc.

 

So, the bottom line answer to your question is a combination of the complexities of Social Security regulations and my own "confusion and ignorance".

 

If it is true that benefits to adopted children would only occur upon death, (I accept that you may very well be correct), this would not motivate me to marry my g/f in order to benefit her children - considering that if I made it to the normal life expectancy for an American male, the children would already be too old to receive benefits.