Time To "Bitch-slap Israel"?

[USVirgin]

 

are you jewish?

I have nothing against jews ..

Usually racist remarks start with exactly this sentence: "I have nothing against XXX"

 

XXX = chose your race' date=' nation, culture or religion...[/quote']

 

Hahaha...as they say, if you ever hear a sentence prefaced with 'with all due respect', prepare to be disrespected.

[kamui]

 

are you jewish?

I have nothing against jews ..

Usually racist remarks start with exactly this sentence: "I have nothing against XXX"

 

XXX = chose your race' date=' nation, culture or religion...[/quote']

 

Hahaha...as they say, if you ever hear a sentence prefaced with 'with all due respect', prepare to be disrespected.

 

This phrase became very famous in Germany. Joschka Fischer, who later became the German foreign minister, famously said in the German parliament to the vice president of the German parliament:

"With all due respect Mr. President, you are an asshole!"

:content:

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

Hi,

 

"Its political suicide."

 

So much for separation of state and church.

 

Israel should never have been created, and certainly not in the way it was done. Why did they have the 'right' to live there?

 

What if the Mormons decide that they are entitled to their own country? Would the US give up a part of its own territory? Nah, didn't think so.

So, what makes the Jews different?

 

Oh, right, they were persecuted. Well, join the fucking club. How many others groups have been persecuted and are still being persecuted?

Again, what makes the Jews different?

 

I'm sorry for the rant but I am of the firm believe that Israel is a HUGE part of the problem in the Middle East.

 

Sanuk!

 

 

 

Look at when Israel was first created..... nation after nation was put to the sword (genocide) by the Jews and nobody blinked an eye.

 

Have they changed much?

[Old Hippie]

Ah what? Israel as we know it was created in what 1948? despite any noble claims, I honestly believe the ONLY reason Israel was created was to dump all the European Jewish refugees, and get them out of Europe. The USA didn't want them, Europe didn't want them, so well dump them in the dessert.

 

The cynic in me thinks UK/USA (or was it mostly UK?) did this with the rest of the world's blessing hoping the Arabs/muslims would finish them off. Despite their best efforts, this didn't happen.

[Bangkoktraveler]

I was referring to the Biblical account as the Jews returned to thr Promised Land.

[robaus]

>>People tend to forget that the Zionists BOUGHT their land there. They paid for it fair and proper. Later, they had to fight to keep it.

 

Flashermac,

 

If by some extremely hypothetical quirk of history Mexico were financed and armed with WMD by China to help them repossess the US border states that were colonized by Europeans (who somehow or other had been disempowered), would you suggest that non Latino Texans and Caifornians surrender their homes, quit bitching and go and get themselves assimilated into the northern states and Canada?

 

Did Zionists pay Mr Ghwazy for his land? Have they paid for the land where illegal squattlements stand in the West Bank?

 

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/palestine-remembered-60-years-later-the-untold-story-of-the-day/

 

I don't know if you are deliberately spreading disinformation about the ME conflict or you simply believe everything Fox Noise says (owned by Zionist Murdoch). For yourself and others I suggest you read

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2844859/myths-facts-about-Zionism

and

http://www.palestineremembered.com/ZionistFAQ.html

 

 

By the end of 1947, Zionists had acquired only 6.59% of the total land mass of Palestine. The Jewish National Fund estimates that only 2 percent of the State of Israel is state domain acquired from the Mandate, that the JNF and private Jewish owners possess 10 percent, and almost all the rest within the 1949 armistice lines, nearly 90%, belongs to Arab Palestinian owners.Forcibly abandoned property was one of the greatest contributions toward making Israel a viable state:

Of the 370 Jewish settlements established between 1948 and the beginning of 1953, 350 were on absentee property. 10,000 shops, businesses and stores were left in Jewish hands. Before the war, half of all citrus groves were Arab-owned. In

1951, fruit from these lands provided 10% of the country’s foreign currency earnings. In the early 1950s, nearly 95 percent of Israel’s olive groves, 40,000 dunums of vineyards, and 10,000 dunums of non-citrus orchards were on stolen Palestinian land.

Israel adopted a series of pseudo-legal regulations to obscure the outright plunder of the land: Emergency Regulations Relative to Property of Absentees Law of the Acquisition of Absentees Property Emergency Regulations for the Exploitation of Uncultivated Lands Emergency Regulations (Security Zones) Emergency Land Requisition Law Development Authority (Transfer of Property) Law Land Acquisition (Validation of Acts and Compensation)

 

Confiscated Palestinian land makes up 90% of Israel. The Jewish National Fund (JNF) is a private corporation founded to buy land for the Jewish people and that is its purpose to this day. 13% of Israel’s land belongs to the JNF, and the JNF does not lease land to non-Jews. Approximately 80% of JNF land was not purchased, but simply taken from those who fled during the war in 1948, and transferred to the JNF for the sole use of Jews. This “redemption of land,†which means the transfer of lands from Arabs to Jews, is still going on. A subsidiary of the JNF, Himnuta, is even involved in “redeeming†land in

the occupied territories.

In 1961 it was agreed that JNF land and the stolen state land be managed by a government body, the Israel Lands Administration (ILA), under the same rules adopted by the JNF in 1906, i.e., denial of its use, lease, development or access to any non-Jew. The ILA manages 92.6% of the land in Israel. In addition to the property of the refugees, Israel took 76% of the land of the remaining villages in Israel. The JNF touts its “reforestation†as “environmentalism†when, in fact, many of these forests are planted over the remains of destroyed Palestinian villages.

The JNF has graciously announced, however, that historical information plaques erected in JNF parks and forests will cite the names of the Arab villages formerly located there.

 

“When a “Jewish majority†was impossible to achieve, based on Jewish immigration and natural growth, Zionist leaders (such as Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett, Ze’ev Jabotinsky, and Chaim Weizmann) concluded that “population transfer†was the only solution to what they referred to as the “Arab Problem.†Year after year, the plan to cleanse Palestine away from its indigenous people became known as the “transfer solution.†David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the “transfer solution †..... Now where have I heard that phrase before in history? Bloody ironic, eh!

 

 

Here's a recent item from UK's Independent about what is really happening in Occupied Palestine... well worth reading...full article here

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-palestinians-should-now-declare-their-independence-1920130.html

 

The Palestinian story is so rarely explained without disinformation [Thanks Flasher]that it still seems startling when it is stated plainly. Until 1948, the Palestinians were living in their own homes, on their own land – until they were

suddenly driven out in a war to make way for a new state for people fleeing a monstrous European genocide. They lived huddled and dazed in the 20 per cent of their land they were allowed to keep. They hardly fought back: they wept and

dreamed of return. Then in the 1967 war, even these small strips were conquered with tanks and platoons.

 

Day by day since then, the remaining Palestinian land has been taken and given to fundamentalist settlers who claim it was given to them by God. They watched while Israeli Prime Ministers said they didn't exist – "there are no Palestinians",

announced Golda Meir – or described them as animals: Menachem Begin called them "beasts walking on two legs", while Yitzhak Shamir said they should be "crushed like grasshoppers... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." They tried peacefully resisting, launching a programme of sit-downs and civil disobedience. Yitzhak Rabin responded by ordering the occupying Israeli army to "break their bones." After decades of this treatment, they fought back with violence – some of it targeted horribly and unacceptably at Israeli civilians.

 

And so today – with the active support of the governments of the Western world – the Palestinians live in a permanent military headlock. They are split in two. The Gaza Strip is blockaded on all sides, its population of 1.5 million imprisoned in a cramped, collapsing concrete maze the size of the Isle of Wight. For nearly three years, the essentials of life have been slowly choked off, in a process one Israeli official described with a chuckle as "putting the Palestinians on a diet". The items blocked from coming in include pasta and children's exercise books. The UN has shown that 70 per cent of Gazans are living on less than $1 a day, and 60 per cent have no daily access to clean water. Every time I go there, I think it can't be worse, yet it is. They used to use cars. Now it's donkeys.

 

On the West Bank, the land-theft continues. To protect the settlers and their programme of taking Palestinian land, there is a huge military infrastructure, made up of check-points and random searches and settler-only roads. The Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Richard Ben Cramer offers one story he witnessed that typifies and distils life on the West Bank: "One

school headmaster, a dignified elder man, who passed the same checkpoint on his way to school every morning, was made to undress – not once but often – and stand naked while his students passed by. This was richly humorous [to the occupying soldiers]."

 

There is a solution. Everyone knows it: divide the land. There are two peoples – the Palestinians and the Israelis. Let them live in two states, with 1967 borders, with full compensation for the victims of 1948. Although it is painful to accept swathes of your own dispossession, the Palestinian leadership has supported this programme since 1978, and even

Hamas – the ugly fundamentalist group – tacitly accepts it. Yet it has not been offered to the Palestinians. Every time they have sat down to negotiate, even more has been stolen from them: settler numbers doubled during the Oslo "peace

process". It culminated in an offer of a series of broken Batustans controlled forever by Israel – one no Palestinian leader could accept.

 

And now there is an endless ratchet. Swathes of East Jerusalem are being turned into biblical heritage theme parks and settler-belts that cut the city off from the West Bank. In 2008, 4,600 Palestinians lost their residency papers and so

were expelled from the city, 20 times more than the year before.

 

For a long time, I believed that the Israeli people – with their own history of unimaginable suffering – would change their behaviour on their own. They would surely reject life as eternal jailer, after the jail cells they have endured.

 

They would surely see that this process of slow strangulation would only make Palestinians more determined to fight back.

 

If nothing else, they would surely see that the Palestinians would – because of their higher birth-rate – soon be a majority between the Jordan river and the sea, and there was no future for Israel as a Jewish minority ruling over a

Palestinian majority like some 1980s Afrikaaner tribute band.

 

While there are some heroic Israelis who argue back – Gideon Levy, David Grossman, Uri Avnery, Gush Shalom, my military refusenik friends – they are disappointingly few. It may be that surviving the most horrific atrocities doesn't make you

compassionate, but more often makes you hard, and paranoid. It may make you see the ghost of your murderer even in your victims: Adolf Hitler in a Gazan child. I think of the survivors of the Rwandan genocide I have known, who promptly charged off to pillage Congo, killing millions.

 

There is very little the Palestinians can do to change their situation alone. They are virtually disarmed, with a few rockets and some stone-throwing kids, against the fourth most powerful army on earth. But international pressure – applied intelligently, without hyperbole – can strengthen their hand, and the Palestinians are considering a move that would catalyse it. They are considering a unilateral declaration of independence, and an appeal for the world to recognise them as a state. It wouldn't cause the occupation to vanish – but it would make the situation plain for all to see. They are a people; they deserve a state, as much as the British or the Israelis. Netanyahu talks about the dangers of Israel being wiped from the map, yet Palestine is being wiped from the map every day by his tanks and his guns. Why should they have to "earn" their right to their own land by proving obedience to an abusive foreign power?

 

Western governments support this erasure of Palestine: the EU with diplomacy and arms sales and by providing Israel with its largest markets, and the US with hard cash. A declaration of Palestinian independence would force them to either defend that position to (mostly appalled) electorates, or change it. Already, France's Foreign Minister, Bernard Kouchner, has hinted that he would feel obliged to support a declaration. Would Obama veto the creation of a Palestinian state at the UN Security Council?

 

Peace in the Middle East is the economic shot in the arm the world needs, and a just Mid East peace agreement would take the wind out of extremists' sails.

 

 

[Guest lazyphil]

nice lecture man from the chosen land of white bigots. kevin bloody wilson brigade!!!

[USVirgin]

You actually read all that?

You might just be the one person on the planet that has more time on his hands than I.

[ALHOLK]

Thanks for a remarkably intelligent post.

[Flashermac]

<< note: there is no historical record of david or jesus .. >>

 

What historical records are there of very many folks from a few thousand years ago? And who decides what constitutes "historical"?

 

There are even fewer non-Islamic references to Muhammad than there are non-Christian references to Jesus. Guess Mo mustn't have existed either.