Old Hippie Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Assuming of course that 1 side is 100% factual/right' date=' which is seldom the case. The bigger issue is, did IDF have the right to board the ship in the first place? and I mean by international law, Not IDF's perspective, or that of the Israel can do no wrong brigade. My personal feeling here is you can't trust either side to tell you 100% of the truth, same with the recent events in BKK since you want to drag that up again.[/quote'] Idea: let's not assume anything, but just look at the video. I'm not assuming either side is 100% correct. As usual with this situation, it's a mess. It think it would be obvious to anyone who sees the videos that the explanation by at least some protestors now that they did not attack the soldiers, did not have weapons, is 100% horse shit. 2 videos I just came across: shows soldier being stabbed by a protestor this one shows clear violence on part of protestors, and I don't think any reasonable person can look at that video and claim this is a peaceful group of protestors, or that the soldiers were the ones doing the attacking. there's more videos like these OH, please do look at the videos and give your honest take on what you see. That's what I just did. First video link, looks like a guy being attacked from behind...a knife? maybe, but the victim does well for a guy who has been stabbed from behind... Second video, looks like soldiers fast roping onto the deck of a ship, and being met with force...I find both videos a bit off...second video, about the 1 minute mark, look closely at the soldiers gun (the silhouette), looks like a paintball gun, note the shape, air tank on top? Either video is clearly inconclusive... O.K. lets clear the air here...out ourselves if we will, and maybe show our bias or lack there of. As some already know, I am Jewish (GASP!!) so are some others, why not out ourselves so there is no question of bias, or antisemitism? I have been called "Self Hater" and every other name in the book by Jews, but I refuse to get on board with the party line of "Israel can do no wrong." I hate Zionists, as I do any hardliner unwilling to use logic and rational thinking to find a solution to a problem. It Pisses me off when American Jews put Israel ahead of the USA... if your bread is buttered in the USA, not Israel, you'd better recognize that! Pick a team, and stop trying to play on both sides, it doesn't work. If these people, Israelis want peace, they need to shut the fuck up, quit bitching and quit being the eternal victim, and realize there are other people in the world. People THEY have displaced in their own homeland as well. Further more, I do think Israel is fast becoming, or already has become "the new apartheid." Tons of "NON regional" Jews have flooded into Israel, and can vote, shape policy and government, and help oppress the "other 1/2 of the coin" that is, the Palestinian people. This has to stop. I believe, left to their own, hard liners aside, the rational thinking Israelis and Palestinians can work their shit out. The trouble is all the outside meddling and crap from all sides that interferes with this happening. I did read today, will look for a link (read it in print) that a group of Hasidim Scholars are now calling for an end to the Israeli occupation of Gaza. Wow, that says a lot if true. OK, so who are the other Jews here...? Afraid to have it known? Afraid to show why you may be biased? Step up guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 OH, great speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acockasian Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Israelis and Palestinians can work their shit out" is certainly true but that is not likely to happen until the US turns off the funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no rite way Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Which is why in the next sentence he said this........"The trouble is all the outside meddling and crap from all sides that interferes with this happening." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iknowall Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Well...I have been reading here for a bit, and lurking even longer. Let me just say, that as an expat who owns 3 businesses here in Israel, many of you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Would you all please shut the fuck up about it all? as it does not involve you. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acockasian Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Well...I have been reading here for a bit, and lurking even longer. Let me just say, that as an expat who owns 3 businesses here in Israel, many of you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Would you all please shut the fuck up about it all? as it does not involve you. Thank you. The problem is that it does involve every single US taxpayer. If Israel did not survive on US foreign aid I would agree with what you are saying. Because of you we have to also give a huge amount of money to Egypt. Many years number 2 in foreign aid. I would love to completely shut up about it....when MY money, NOT YOURS, stops going to your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iknowall Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Israelis and Palestinians can work their shit out" is certainly true but that is not likely to happen until the US turns off the funding. No shit Sherlock! This is what I am saying. Cut it all off, close the doors and let these people, those FROM the region, not the foreign imports, decide what they want and how they will go about getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iknowall Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Well...I have been reading here for a bit' date=' and lurking even longer. Let me just say, that as an expat who owns 3 businesses here in Israel, many of you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Would you all please shut the fuck up about it all? as it does not involve you. Thank you.[/quote'] The problem is that it does involve every single US taxpayer. If Israel did not survive on US foreign aid I would agree with what you are saying. Because of you we have to also give a huge amount of money to Egypt. Many years number 2 in foreign aid. I would love to completely shut up about it....when MY money, NOT YOURS, stops going to your country. Sorry numb nuts, but The USA and Israel are both my countries! I chose to live in Israel and I own 3 businesses, so I think I know more about this than anyone else! Maybe if you lived here, and owned a business, you'd have a clue what you are talking about, but until then, please be quiet...I live here, I know it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallenda Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 if you can think of how to shoot this scene from your imagination, I'll happily take a look. ... Perhaps get retired IDF General Shlomo Brom (above) to run it past you. He seems to think he could have conducted a more successful operation than Israel's finest's surprise stealth pirate attack with 6 hours advanced notice and full knowledge of deck activity from drones. It's a wonder they weren't wearing fluorescent jackets. Don't you have even the slightest sneaky little feeling that such an amateurish almighty cock-up by supposed super professional commandos, followed by Israel's disingenuous shock horror that the activists might actually resist this unannounced boarding, may have been stage managed? Then have the cameras rolling to provide some handy footage to edit later into propaganda for the likes of gullible Fox Noise viewers to swallow. So... the video is fake, then? You seem to be really emotionally invested in this. You're right, there's no need for me to "besmirch' you. I've been reading mainly in the Thai news, so it's strictly my own personal connection, after having read the thread about Savage and Connor. Still, not sure you're coming across here exactly as a cool-headed objective observer. If your point was that Israel bungled the landing, I'd agree. If it was that they had no right to do it, I'd at least understand where you're coming from with that. But you have eyes, so I presume you can see that this video does not jive with the version of the story being put out by these protestors. I mean, cmon, they knew Israel was gonna stop them. They knew what they were getting themselves into. And they did their best to escalate it. At least you realize that, right? But dude, you gotta stop going down these conspiracy theory angles -- the whole "obviously they would/wouldn't have..." or whatever. Good way to totally lose the plot, trying to get facts to fit your desired emotion-based outcome. It's ok if the pro-Palestinian side fucks up sometimes. You can still root for them even if they trip up once in awhile. ps: what was it they said about Jeff Savage... split personality? Again, only my own personal observation, it may mean nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hi, Iknowall, I do not appreciate it when people create account for the express purpose of messing with my forum. Account banned. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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