Obama Plans to Cut Social Security Next

[expat]

We'll just conveniently ignore the fact that the insurance mandate thing was a GOP idea that the Dems necessarily picked up after universal coverage was given away to appease said GOPers.

 

Worth repeating. Again and again.

 

[Flashermac]

<< No different than auto insurance. Every state requires that, too. >>

 

I haven't lived in California in decades, but when I was a resident one had to have either insurance or a certain amount of money in the bank. Insurance as such was not mandated, only the requirement that you were financially able to pay for any damage or injury you might cause to another.

 

 

[cavanami]

Yes, you drive a vehicle, you can do damage to others, thus the need for insurance. No problem.

 

Health insurance, a MUST? WTF, not at all the same.

[LizardKing]

The point is Cav that it is not all about YOU. All top tier civilizations (uh, except the USA) believe that certain things are a cost of civilization. Healthcare for all is one of them. The bonus is that 150% figure you gave in another thread about wages is 25 years old. Figure 250% and that increase is mostly about helathcare. It is a national security issue and makes the USA uncompetitive in just about any market in the world.

 

And you are naive if you think not having insurance could not be a national emergency, let alone a tort thing ala auto insurance. Assume the pig flu was a real epidemic. How many would NOT go to a doctor because they have no insurance and not money? You know it would be 40% of the population in the US. You think the pig flu virus will note that you are a rich white guy and pass you by? 5555555555. You're fucked too. So at the very least, it is in your best interest to see that residents of your country have access to and proper medical care, if for no other reason than just to save your own arse.

 

That's why I think the GOPers have their heads up their arses. They can't even see that far ahead, where it directly impacts their income and wealth. I wish I was as stupid as some of these motherfuckers. I'd be as rich as them. Being smart doesn't make you rich. It makes you responsible.

[allistar]

Having to provide healthcare to its employees (even if a larger percentage is being paid by the employee) puts business at a disadvanage, as compared to their overseas competition. I guess it must be the fear of the unknown that keeps the U.S. as the only major country that offers healthcare through its employers. What made sense in the 50's and 60's no longer is viable and the sooner it is fixed, the better. I won't even get into the inequality of the haves and the have nots in the present system (larger businesses and govenment being able to buy the best health care at a fraction of the price of those forced to buy in the market). Just have business give the money that they are presently spending on healthcare to its employees and have them buy on the open market. I can guarentee that the cost of healthcare won't spiral like it has for the last 30 years.

[LizardKing]

Yup. Agreed.

 

 

Now how do we get the rest of the idiots to wake up?????

 

 

[unit731]

There is only one solution: One payer system.

 

GDP Percentage.

 

Rank Countries Amount

 

# 1 United States: 14.6%

# 2 Cambodia: 12%

# 3 Lebanon: 11.5%

# 4 Switzerland: 11.2%

# 5 Sao Tome and Principe: 11.1%

# 6 Monaco: 11%

# 7 Germany: 10.9%

# 8 Marshall Islands: 10.6%

# 9 Togo: 10.5%

# 10 Uruguay: 10%

# 11 Iceland: 9.9%

# 12 Malawi: 9.8%

= 13 Niue: 9.7%

= 13 France: 9.7%

= 15 Malta: 9.6%

= 15 Canada: 9.6%

= 15 Norway: 9.6%

 

 

Per Capita Spending.

 

Rank Countries Amount

 

# 1 United States: 4,271

# 2 Switzerland: 3,857

# 3 Norway: 3,182

# 4 Denmark: 2,785

# 5 Luxembourg: 2,731

# 6 Iceland: 2,701

# 7 Germany: 2,697

# 8 France: 2,288

# 9 Japan: 2,243

# 10 Netherlands: 2,173

# 11 Sweden: 2,145

# 12 Belgium: 2,137

# 13 Austria: 2,121

# 14 Canada: 1,939

# 15 Australia: 1,714

# 16 Finland: 1,704

# 17 Italy: 1,676

# 18 United Kingdom: 1,675

 

 

12 years of BUSH and 8 years of Regan - and zero solutions. WHY? Because their buddies are getting RICH on the current system.

 

 

Figures don't lie, but liars do figure!

[Old Hippie]

Couldn't one argue that good health insurance means a healthy and productive work force? Hence it is in the best interests of the country to have it?

[Steve]

Ideologically as a small L libertarian I was against national healthcare. Nowadays, I'm an independent. No, that's not true, I'm so jaded and cynical that disintereste best describes me. Sad and embarrassed to say that but its true. The country has too many of 'us'.

 

My new view on things is that when either party fights tooth and nail over an issue its not so much about their ideology but about who foots the bill. The lobbying groups with the real power.

Be it big oil, unions, or whatever. Can we blame them? You should be loyal to who is putting money in your pocket and financing your campaign. The voter is just a necessary evil that must be manipulated into going along with what the big money wants. A lot of legislation is drafted initialy (sometimes written almost in entirety) by said groups.

 

American companies historically made money while paying some of the best wages in the world if not the best. People flocked here for those jobs. I'll use the auto industry as an example. In the past the big auto companies got bigger even though their employees were paid more than their counterpart elsewhere around the globe. They became the biggest companies in the world.

They didn't lose because labor priced them out (not that it helped), but because they got greedy, started making shoddy products, cutting back on quality to maximize profits and lost their competitive edge by not looking at trends.

 

Toyota and Honda and others seized on their missteps. We were no longer known for quality, we no longer saw the trend. The big 3 bucked the fact that oil prices were going up and up in the '70s starting with OPEC and their embargo and still had too many gas guzzlers in their fleets.

Just to give an example of one industry.

 

The health care industry, varied as it is: AMA, HMOs, drug industry, etc. have their own self interest in mind. If the average joe benefits its residual. The AMA, our doctors, who all swore a hippocratic oath to save lives, initially fought EVERY change in health care like HMOs, protected bad doctors, arbitrarily limiting the number of doctors to keep wages high, etc.

 

We've been spending too much on defense for decades. In hindsight we didn't have to spend nearly as much in the cold war. We definitely do not have to nowadays. Its a HUGE part of our budget and a lot of it is wasted.

 

I am also so cynical that I actually believe that the party stalwarts, both of them, while they all want to prosper personally, don't actually want the country to prosper if the other is in the white house. I truly believe that.

Its about power, not about what's best for the country anymore and ideology and power is more important than seeing the country prosper if the other guy wins.

 

I wasn't particularly crazy about Clinton early '90s but was happy as a clam we were all doing well in the '90s.

 

Its not only the middle and poor classes that have to be taken care of nowadays, its the small to medium size busiensses. The big multinationals aren't the ones doing the hiring and not who we are working for nowadays. How many of us on here, including friends and families work for a S&P 500 company?

If we took a poll I'd bet dollars to donuts (God, I've become my father!!) that the company is NOT a S&P 500 one and if so its in the last 100. In my working life I've worked for two and I've had several jobs.

 

Going back to health care, I'll repeat what I've always said about it. Until the powers that be in that industry lose their hold on Congress and the white house NOTHING of any meaningful benefit to the american people, short or long term will ever come of it.

 

 

[expat]

Going back to health care, I'll repeat what I've always said about it. Until the powers that be in that industry lose their hold on Congress and the white house NOTHING of any meaningful benefit to the american people, short or long term will ever come of it.

 

Not just the health care industry--also the war industry, the retail industry and so on, and perhaps most importantly the media industry who, by various means, keep people from fighting back.