Usa Thread

[dave32]

In the case of people that do horrible things to kids, I wouldn't have a problem with them getting torture.

 

I've read Dershowitz's thing before. It was a hypothetical conversation that yeah, made waves.

 

There's a big difference between a guy saying that hypothetically, if it were a case where x lives were at stake (x = a lot), and it was necessary to save them, it could be justified -- and the blanket way you wrote it Chuck. As if torture was OK for political prisoners, etc.

[chuckwoww]

Well he approves of it under certain circumstances. Sorry I didn't elaborate. Maybe I do too for all you know.

 

Which leaves us with the Palin hating. Please show me a post where I, or anyone, have said they hate her.

[dave32]

Not you, OH. Past threads. And I seriously doubt he would deny it. If you REALLY need, I'll go back and look.

 

Here's what I think. Bear with me for a few minutes.

 

Lets say, the Jerry Garcia was still around and the Grateful Dead were still touring. And for whatever reason they got banned in Arizona and a few other places. So Jerry, prior to the election, has a map with crosshairs on states where they're targeting incumbents -- endorsing his fans to vote against them, so they can resume touring there. Then there's a tragedy like the one that's just happened, done by a guy who isn't even a dead fan.

 

Do you seriously think OH -- or you -- would come out and try to implicate them the way they're going after Palin? Having a map with crosshairs on it isn't that bad. It's trivial. And you guys are trying to blow it up ad absurdum.

 

Palin is guilty of being annoying and many other things. And there is an increase in hostility, obviously, in American politics.

 

So, there's no need to enlist in a witch hunt, you've got plenty of real problems that need attention.

[chuckwoww]

So why did she take the famous crosshairs graphic off her website? I'll let OH deal with the Jerry Garcia question. Got any Stones questions? I might do better.

 

My problem with Sarah and people like her is the way they take the bible literally. They talk about freedom but they want to organize the world round some mumbo-jumbo. But I don't hate her. In some ways I'd like to see her in the Whitehouse. It could be very entertaining if she doesn't blow us all up.

[dave32]

That's my problem with her too. And I"m not kidding, I think the post-tragedy video on her facebook site is.... ugh. Not because she used the term blood-whatever, but because it struck me as blatantly rehearsed and void.

 

I should not have said the crosshairs were trivial. They weren't trivial, they were incredibly stupid.

 

Dude, I'm not a Palin fan. I kinda was initially, but it wore off. Short attention span (mine) and what not.

 

But just like the righ-wing media treated Obama unfairly, I do believe the an element of the left-wing media has it out for Palin. Oh yeah.

 

And the Metzger comparison is utterly fucking ridiculous. C'mon OH -- I'm waiting....

 

 

(btw - I think OH is a good person with a good heart. And the Metzger comparison he's making is still complete bullshit - I also think there's a lot of Palin detractors out there who will feed the fire).

 

So what does it all mean?

 

You got me. But shooting from the hip, you should try it some time. With a water pistol.

[chuckwoww]

It was those Tina Fey skits on SNL that got me interested in Sarah. I think the thing that pisses the 'liberal elite' off is the sophomoric cheer leading and lack of intellectual nuance. I mean they've had expensive educations and along comes this hockey mom!!

[Hugh_Hoy]

My problem with Sarah and people like her is the way they take the bible literally. They talk about freedom but they want to organize the world round some mumbo-jumbo. But I don't hate her. In some ways I'd like to see her in the Whitehouse. It could be very entertaining if she doesn't blow us all up.

 

How has Palin tried to organize the world in any way? She's barely stepped foot out of the country.

 

In the meantime, you have polarizing people like Obama and Pelosi bent on organizing my country in ways I (and many others)find extremely objectionable. And Obama and Pelosi don't really give a rat's ass what the people want or think.

 

Folks have called Bush, Cheney and Palin vile things. Frankly, I find Pelosi and Obama to be 10x worse. I've said before, while I wouldn't condone their assassination, I wouldn't loose a wink of sleep if they were on AF One if it crashed into the mid-Atlantic. Both are as much liars as some folks like to describe Bush. They are devious, callous, and about as close to bringing unification of our diverse population as is the man in the moon. For all of the crap Obama said at the memorial service, I kept thinking "what a fucking hypocrit". And yes, I heard every word uttered by every speaker...live.

 

Now...just why do you think Palin would blow us all up? Nevermind. Your answer would probably be as sensical and your ascribing fucking targets on a map to Palin having some measure of responsibility for a fucking nutcase taking out at least 6 innocent people. OMG ! Have you seen ANY fucking connection between that map and the perp? I doubt it very much. Don't you think our liberal media would have had it in 124 point type on the front page of every liberal rag in the world? Seriously, CW and OH...you guys need to drop Cav a PM and ask to borrow his tin hat. I'd suggest that LK do the same, but I don't think Cav's hat is big enough unless it's the size of a wine vat. ( to LK)

 

Jeez...talk about "schizos"

 

BTW, CW, I have no friggin idea why the map was taken off her website. Ask her or her organzation. Maybe because the election was over 2 months ago and it was no-longer applicable?

 

I generally like Palin. As Dave32 mentioned, sometimes "annoying". But fractionally as much as fucking Pelosi and much more fuckable. Palin is refreshing when compared to the lying, 2-faced politicians who waffle on every issue. She isn't gutless to say what she thinks. That part of her shows her naievete when it comes to the polticial arena. More annoying that Mrs. Clinton? Not hardly. Certainly not as phoney.

 

HH

[dave32]

She's good at reaching her audience. She's not good at reaching the populace as a whole and would make a terrible president. How the election pans out will be interesting.

 

I think I pissed off OH.

 

btw - my intent was to demonstrate what happens when you employ speech controls ---> do you really want dialog at a level where people have to walk on egg shells for fear that an anonymous psychotic somewhere could misinterpret their meaning? It's almost silly.

 

That said, there are influential people in media who make their careers off of feeding into fear and base emotions, and while you do see that on both sides, it happens more on the right, currently. No doubt.

 

Alright, beat this one enough.

[chuckwoww]

You keep covering old ground Hugh. Do you really think people who see things in Biblical terms aren't dangerous? I'm getting kind of fed up with Obama too. But only because he lets the same old bullies push him around.

 

I think Sarah has probably reached as many people as she ever will. Hard to see how she can grow her audience. Now she has to find a way to keep the fire going. Going to be interesting to see how the GOP handles her.

[LizardKing]

And seriously, all this stuff about cross-hairs on a political map and tying it into a schizo killing someone, is reaching. I don't like the militant attitude of the far right on a lot of things, but the efforts made to link all these things together is a bit of a stretch. Might as well shut down the Beatles because Manson thought Helter Skelter was his cue to murder.

You're building a strawman. No one is suggesting limiting speech legally (well, the GOP proposed & sadly bipartisan supported in AZ by outlawing the idiots from Westboro Church and even tho' I hate them that was wrong).

 

People are saying that one should use better judgment in choosing the words/metaphors/etc that they use. Because words have consequences.

 

You self-censor yourself all the time. For instance, you don't walk into your office and tell your secretary "Get off your ass and make me some coffee, you lazy cunt!" You can bet your ass those words would have consequences! And I am sure you would never consider saying that even if that is what you thought. Same-same here regarding inappropriate metaphors in politics.