Usa Thread

[Steve]

The problem is there are numerous things the CIA does NOT tell the Congress or even the White House. Sometimes they hide things under the 'national security' tag which doesn't work most of the time but can be dragged out on occasion as being so covert and secret it can't inform about specifics if at all.

 

The FBI could have stopped 911. One of the great mysteries is who specificaly said to the agent who was noticed the hijackers taking air line lessons and other suspicious acts and was told not to pursue it. It must have been someone important because when it was investigated everyone above her said 'I was told not to' but we were never told whom. My guess it was someone big because typically there is a fall guy in these things.

 

The problem was the focus of the FBI was on other things.

 

Since 911 the fear of another attack has given the government or specifically its law enforcement and intel agencies a freer reighn in doing whatever it likes. Its chaos that gives license. Just like the financial crisis. The people allowed the government to do things it wouldn't have otherwise. The same chaos will finallly let the government do things its always wanted to do like tax the internet. Posse comitatus, etc. will all be 'temporarily ceased' (that's what they'll say) in a major crisis. FEMA seems the likely agency to effect. It practically has powers to suspend civil liberties and rights and impart martial law if the event is serious enough.

[gobbledonk]

The problem was the focus of the FBI was on other things.

 

 

Guys, again this is my naivety speaking, but isnt the focus of the FBI supposed to be the stuff that happens *within* the borders of the USA, and the CIA focusses on the stuff outside ? I'm not saying they dont overlap, but I would have thought 'McVeigh - FBI, Bin Laden - CIA' : in a perfect world, they would share whatever each had on McVeigh or Bin Laden, but (correct me if I'm wrong) one of the major issues identified after 9/11 was a 'silo' mentality within each of the intelligence services.

 

For those who feel that I was overly critical of the CIAs actions leading up to 9/11, it appears that I wasnt the only one who felt that way:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11#Internal_review_of_the_CIA

 

The Inspector General of the CIA conducted an internal review of the CIA's pre-9/11 performance and was harshly critical of senior CIA officials for not doing everything possible to confront terrorism. He criticized their failure to stop two of the 9/11 hijackers, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, as they entered the United States and their failure to share information on the two men with the FBI.[247]

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

Mathmatically, 9/11/2001 couldn't really happen, but it did.

 

The probability of 19 terrorist getting thru security was statistically so small it would register virtually zero, but it happened.

 

The same goes for 4 planes getting hijacked, 2 skyscrapers being missiled, and the list goes on and on.

 

For all of this to happen, a lot of people must have been looking the other way, not doing their job, etc.

 

The sad part, as far as I can see, nobody ever got chewed out for not doing their job. Figure it out.

[TheCorinthian]

The problem is there are numerous things the CIA does NOT tell the Congress or even the White House. Sometimes they hide things under the 'national security' tag which doesn't work most of the time but can be dragged out on occasion as being so covert and secret it can't inform about specifics if at all.

 

No. You have been watching too many movies.

 

The FBI could have stopped 911. One of the great mysteries is who specificaly said to the agent who was noticed the hijackers taking air line lessons and other suspicious acts and was told not to pursue it. It must have been someone important

 

No. If you believe this you have never worked for a large company as a junior guy. Again, you are watching too many movies and projecting that to the real world.

 

The problem was the focus of the FBI was on other things.

 

Since 911 the fear of another attack has given the government or specifically its law enforcement and intel agencies a freer reighn in doing whatever it likes. Its chaos that gives license. Just like the financial crisis. The people allowed the government to do things it wouldn't have otherwise. The same chaos will finallly let the government do things its always wanted to do like tax the internet. Posse comitatus, etc. will all be 'temporarily ceased' (that's what they'll say) in a major crisis. FEMA seems the likely agency to effect. It practically has powers to suspend civil liberties and rights and impart martial law if the event is serious enough.

 

Nope.

 

 

 

 

Mathmatically, 9/11/2001 couldn't really happen, but it did..

 

Naaaaa....

 

Mathematically?? Huh? Please show me this math.

 

Absolutely it could happen. Everything that does happen... could. (And a lot that just has not... can.)

[Bangkoktraveler]

 

 

 

Mathmatically, 9/11/2001 couldn't really happen, but it did..

 

Naaaaa....

 

Mathematically?? Huh? Please show me this math.

 

Absolutely it could happen. Everything that does happen... could. (And a lot that just has not... can.)

 

 

The probability of one terrist getting thru was very slim. The probability of two terrorist getting thru is a lot slimmer.

 

When you look at 19 terrorist getting thru, the probability of the event occuring is so slim the number would be approaching zero. A number so close to zero is for the most part looked at as being zero or virtually impossible.

 

When you look at some of the other variables, each variable such as the probability of 4 planes being hijacked in one day, is so close to zero it is like being virtually impossible.

 

Group all of these virtually impossibilities together and the conclusion is the event really can't happen but in this case it did.

[TheCorinthian]

Group all of these virtually impossibilities together and the conclusion is the event really can't happen but in this case it did.

 

 

 

Nope. None of it was "virtually impossible." Re read your Sun Tsu. No one was even looking for an attack like that. That makes it very likely

 

[Coss]

Yes I agree though I don't know Sun Tsu.

 

The probability of aliens bursting out of the chests of all the world leaders is virtually impossible - until after it happens, and then we all say, we shoulda seen it coming.

 

You have to have all the information for probability to stand up.

 

i.e. you have to know that, all the world leaders are presently, not incubating aliens.

 

How can you know that? I wouldn't put money on it.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Group all of these virtually impossibilities together and the conclusion is the event really can't happen but in this case it did.

 

 

 

Nope. None of it was "virtually impossible." Re read your Sun Tsu. [color:red]No one was even looking for an attack like that.[/color] That makes it very likely

 

Hijacking had been done in the past, so why not on 9/11/2001?

 

There had been talk off retrofitting a jet into a missile, why not on 9/11/2001?

 

People had been checked before for box cutters, why weren't the terrorist of 9/11/2001 checked for box cutters?

 

Hours can be spent pointing out such peculiarities.

 

.

 

History will probably record the events of 9/11/01 as one of the greatest military

acts ever committed in history.

[Steve]

The problem is there are numerous things the CIA does NOT tell the Congress or even the White House. Sometimes they hide things under the 'national security' tag which doesn't work most of the time but can be dragged out on occasion as being so covert and secret it can't inform about specifics if at all.

 

No. You have been watching too many movies.

Hey Corinthian' date=' thanks for your response, I'll address your responses individually.

 

I do watch too many movies..lol..I also do some reading.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency

 

[b']Lying to Congress[/b]

Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi has stated that the CIA repeatedly misled the Congress since 2001 about waterboarding and other torture, though Pelosi admitted to being told about the programs.[106][107] Six members of Congress have claimed that Director of CIA Leon Panetta admitted that over a period of several years since 2001 the CIA deceived Congress, including affirmatively lying to Congress. Some congressmen believe that these "lies" to Congress are similar to CIA lies to Congress from earlier periods.

 

Covert programs hidden from Congress

On July 10, 2009, House Intelligence subcommittee Chairwoman Representative Jan Schakowsky (D, IL) announced the termination of an unnamed CIA covert program described as "very serious" in nature which had been kept secret from Congress for eight years.

[Steve]

The FBI could have stopped 911. One of the great mysteries is who specificaly said to the agent who was noticed the hijackers taking air line lessons and other suspicious acts and was told not to pursue it. It must have been someone important

 

No. If you believe this you have never worked for a large company as a junior guy. Again, you are watching too many movies and projecting that to the real world.

 

The problem was the focus of the FBI was on other things.

 

 

With regards to your point. Yes, I agree they were focused on other issue (I think it was narcotics at the time but not sure). However, its is not supposed to be their SOLE purpose. The FBI covers all matters of national security. Someone deemed it not important enough. Why don't we know that someone? Her direct boss told her not to pursue and said he was told by someone higher. Why don't we know who the specific person or persons were.

I have worked for very large corporations. I worked for one that was a 40 billion dollar subsidiary of AIG, who were mammoth at the time. I know about things getting lost as go up the chain of command.

I was a first line manager and told not to take actions in my department that I thought were uwise. He told me verbally and I knew it would be my word against him so I followed it up with an email to him saying 'Per our discussion today in your office, I won't pursue..blah, blah, blah'. I documented other e mails, etc. so when it hit the fan and I knew my ass was covered. I had a boss that was eventually fired for that and other mishaps in other departments under his auspices. She (the FBI agent) had proof she alerted supeiors. There were other reports as well I thought I at the time like Israeli intel being concerned. The dismissal of the alert was particularly onerous given that we suffered the World Trade bombing in the early '90s by a similear such group. So, it wasn't like it was the first time.

 

Edited January 28, 2011 by Guest