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TroyinEwa/Perv
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..one more thing..lol...so' date=' if we accept this children of illegal thingy not being American then the 3rd and 4th generation of latinos who have entered illegally decades ago and are also not citizens? Sort of like the legal 'fruit of the poison tree' saying? In theory then someone who's grandparens were illegals 50, 60 years ago is now illegal? Would it also apply only to one parent? If someone had a baby with an illegal immigrant then the baby is illegal? Or not? Related to my first point, you have someone who is the offspring of illegals and they're adults, who have mortgage, kids, etc. They are not American?

 

slipery slope time. [/quote']

 

 

 

 

55555. Well, those children of the illegals from previous administrations and from years gone by would have grandfathered rights, and as said, once born on US soil they were, and are, legal US citizens, but... laws can be changed, and are all the time if they are found to be no longer desirable or workable. No? :beer:

 

Lets not dance around it. It IS a hispanic issue. Maybe not yours but its whats prompting this. Its the elephant in the room. No one wants illegal immigrants. Of course they should build up their own country, etc. However, taking away birth citizenship is NOT one of the answers. We have a glorious history of expanding who is an American, now we are talking about taking away something that we have always accepted as being American. Its un-American frankly ironically enough.

You may grandfather them in but using the line of reason for not accepting children of illegal, someone can make a very plausible and reasonable counter to your suggestion and say that ALL offspring of illegals are NOT American and using the precedence suggested would have a very strong case.

Furthermore any constitutional scholor worth his salt will tell you its unconstitutioal. We covered that in an earlier thread.

Also do we honestly believe that changing it will curtail illegal immigration sigificantly it all? Its reactionary and over the top. I understand. Truly I do. I live in LA and see the ramifications of illegal latino immigration.

A better use of time and energy should be spent on electing people who will handle the problem at its roots. Pols who will take steps to protect the border.

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Hun Sen started it with his "stone" marker (made out of brick) declaring the Thais were invaders in the disputed territory, plus having the Cambos fly the Cambodian flag over the ramshackle Buddhist temple they built in the area instead of the usual Buddhist flag they'd previously flown. And like robots, the PAD immediately rose to the bait and are kicking up a fuss. Wonder what Wun Sen is up to now that he needed this distraction. :hmmm:

 

Why would anyone want to be PM of Thailand? It is like trying to maintain order in a mod of unruly children.

 

 

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Oh, dear ... you are still off target.

 

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1:

 

"No person except a natural born citizen, [color:red]or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,[/color] shall be eligible to the office of President."

 

 

p.s. I really hate to disagree with you, since you are one of the most thoughtful and always interesting posters on this board. But the archan in me just won't let me keep my mouth shut. :(

 

 

Hello Flash, disagree in terms of what? Not sure what point I made that it doesn't agree with. I speculated that if a person was born in the USA of illegal parents at the founding (and were 35) they could be President. I wasn't sure but reading this I don't see how that is not the case if its proven they were born in the USA?

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Ok, so we want to take away the citizenship of illegal's "anchor babies..." O.k. Now what about women who come here on tourist's visas for the specific purpose of having their babies born here in the USA?

 

Example, there is a birth center in San Francisco, forget the name and can't be bothered to look it up, which is pretty much in the business of taking in women on tourist's visas who are ready to give birth. The sole purpose of these women is to have their kids exercise their "birth right" and petition the family to immigrate to the USA, jumping the normal wait time.

 

Technically, these women are in the country legally, but they are here to scam the system, what should be done with these women? To me, any kid born here is an American, but they should have to be 18 before they can exercise any rights to petition their family. If it is proven the family entered illegally, then those doing so should be barred from entering for a set period, which I believe is currently 10 years? HH you know?

 

As much as I am against illegals, I get nervous when people want to dick with the Constitution...

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Ah, the one world, one government theory? Unworkable for the foreseeable future I think. As nice as it sounds, and I do feel it would be a wonderful thing if we were all one big happy world human family, all paying taxes to help our children have a bright future, no more wars over silly boundaries (much like this stupid horseshit the Thai Yellows are stirring up with Cambodia at the moment), free education at the lowest to highest levels for all, etc, etc. I just do not see this becoming even close to a reality in even my grandkids lifetimes.

 

I agree if it's intended. Governments worldwide, would never cede.

 

What I'm seeing is, with the netweb, people behaving en masse, across borders for the same aims, see Egypt thread.

 

So the regard for borders is lessening in the behaviour of the masses.

 

Organised one world? never!

 

Mass flocking? probably.

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Mass flocking, yep. I think it takes a certain amount of willpower to overcome the tendency to flock. Probably no escaping it.

 

The trick is to get people to recognize themselves as part of a larger whole, and yet still retain their local (ethnic) identity -- and to stop brutalizing each other over petty differences.

 

Of course, take away hope for any kind of promising future and everything gets chucked out the window.

 

Maybe in the next millennium.

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Ok, so we want to take away the citizenship of illegal's "anchor babies..." O.k. Now what about women who come here on tourist's visas for the specific purpose of having their babies born here in the USA?

 

Example, there is a birth center in San Francisco, forget the name and can't be bothered to look it up, which is pretty much in the business of taking in women on tourist's visas who are ready to give birth. The sole purpose of these women is to have their kids exercise their "birth right" and petition the family to immigrate to the USA, jumping the normal wait time.

 

Technically, these women are in the country legally, but they are here to scam the system, what should be done with these women? To me, any kid born here is an American, but they should have to be 18 before they can exercise any rights to petition their family. If it is proven the family entered illegally, then those doing so should be barred from entering for a set period, which I believe is currently 10 years? HH you know?

 

As much as I am against illegals, I get nervous when people want to dick with the Constitution...

At the end of the day we're saying that people who are American are no longer American. If you can remove citizenship, its a slippery slope. Also, its unconstitutional. Not the first time states have stepped on that piece of paper.

We're blaming the wrong people. We're blaming an AMERICAN baby for having an illegal parent. I think we're better served blamng the federal government for not doing its job.

 

Also, we're kidding ourselves if the European immigrants a century or so ago would't have streamed across the border i they were as close as the latinos. We place them upon a pedestal but they came for the same exact reasons a lot of latinos did. They were told by many people to go back to their countries as well and to improve the condition in Ireland, Sweden, Russia, Germany, etc. as well.

I get just as pissed off as any one else but this is NOT the way to address it.

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At the end of the day we're saying that people who are American are no longer American. If you can remove citizenship, its a slippery slope. Also, its unconstitutional. Not the first time states have stepped on that piece of paper.

 

We're blaming the wrong people. We're blaming an AMERICAN baby for having an illegal parent. I think we're better served blaming the federal government for not doing its job.

 

Also, we're kidding ourselves if the European immigrants a century or so ago wouldn't have streamed across the border i they were as close as the Latinos. We place them upon a pedestal but they came for the same exact reasons a lot of Latinos did. They were told by many people to go back to their countries as well and to improve the condition in Ireland, Sweden, Russia, Germany, etc. as well.

 

I get just as pissed off as any one else but this is NOT the way to address it.

:yeahthat:

 

OK, I know we don't agree on much politically Choco, but you know I always respect your opinion (and I know you, mine). That is well said. I agree 1,000%!

 

America has a history of "fucking with" new immigrants. Witness the NINA caveats in the want ads at the turn of the century for example (maybe not the best example, but since I'm from Irish stock, it appeals to me).

 

Now is just the Mexican's time to be fucked with in our country and it is up to us to help them get through it, as others did for us.

 

That said, I still believe in the rule of law, and enforcing it harshly on biz that hire illegals. But rounding up said "illegals" and incarcerating them or deporting them is not practical nor proper. Taking away any incentive for them to be in the US illegally will send them home, because that's where everyone really wants to be, all things considered.

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