Usa Thread

[Coss]

A Kremlin spokesperson said Russia hopes the U.S. doesn’t release the transcripts of Trump’s conversations with Vladimir Putin like it did with the Ukrainian president's calls. "We would like to hope that things won’t come to such situations in our bilateral relations, which already have plenty of quite serious problems," said Dmitry Peskov. He called the move to release the information "a rather unusual practice," and said that as a rule, "materials from conversations on the level of the head of state are considered secret or top secret." (Bloomberg)

Or - we will, release the piss tape...

[Steve]

From what I have read, there is never, ever a private conversation between a President and another world leader. Until now, a law wasn't broken.  It's the administration, Trump's own administration that is saying a law is broken. It's Trump who violated the privacy of such conversations by discussing something for personal political gain and a violation of the law. Trump himself has now made discussions between leaders and its privacy an issue. The repercussions have jeopardized the office immeasurably if he has now made private conversations (within the context of how they are conducted) something that will be under scrutiny in the future. 

Lets be clear, its long been reported that he has to be 'baby sat' with regards to protocol, tradition, etc, of the office. It shows a lack of respect for the office but no law broken. It's his style, but now its crossed the line into legality. 

He has fucked up royally. No 2 ways about it. Now come the consequences. It may result in his expulsion or it may blow over (as its a political process) but to avoid this breach of legality  and do nothing, leaves it open for a Clinton on the other side to use this as political cover to do the same. It needs to be investigated for the office, irrespective of party. Because at some point, it will be used by someone you don't like, such as a Hillary Clinton type (using her unpopularity as an example). 

[Steve]

....on a sidenote, the fact that Trump chooses the head of the FBI and the Department of Justice, two agencies that can legally investigate the Biden's but he needs his personal lawyer and a personal phone call to get it done, speaks volumes that there is nothing there. There is absolutely nothing illegal if the FBI or the DOJ doing the same thing he tried to do himself along with his personal lawyer. As well as the 'lock her up' Hillary email he used all throughout the campaign. He could legally get her locked up via both entities but hasn't. 

Two things, I have to assume he discussed with both heads prior to giving them the job. Doing a 'are you going to believe me or your lying eyes' that Fox and Friends, Lindsay Graham and others are doing is even more amazing. 

[Steve]

There are reports of other phone calls, etc, that people in the administration have tried to remove from the official databases, etc, to protect other statements, etc that violate the law. 

Just like with Nixon, it may be the cover up, rather than the act itself. However, Trump biggest ally in this is the Dems. How? The Dems will probably fuck up their own investigation. They overplayed the Mueller investigation through incompetency and there is a good chance they will fuck up this as well. lol. I'm not being sarcastic. Pelosi and the leadership are the 'Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight". The Republicans are more corrupt but effective. The Dems are less corrupt but ineffective. 

[cavanami]

Wow CS....you have gone off the rails!

 

[cavanami]

What is actually going on...

 

[cavanami]

So we need to prosecute President Kennedy...he had those phone conversations with Khrushchev?

...and the root of this is to provide cover for the Bidens. There is plenty of proof that Biden requested that the prosecutor investigating Biden's son be fired! but that's OK? How many BILLIONS did Hunter Biden get from the Ukraine and China, but that's OK?

 

[Coss]

42 minutes ago, cavanami said:

So we need to prosecute President Kennedy...he had those phone conversations with Khrushchev?

Go on then, see how far you get.

"There is plenty of proof that Biden requested that the prosecutor investigating Biden's son be fired! but that's OK?"  

yes, Biden along with all the countries of the European Union, who also thought that the particular prosecutor, was corrupt and should be got rid of. Biden was a small voice amongst many.

Cav, an education and some reading would go a long way, to making your youtube choices, credible.

But as it is, all the contributions you and your youtube mates, have made, are just Trumpanzees screaming and banging sticks on a tree.

[Coss]

Seven important and awful signs for Donald Trump

Washington Post 

1. The whistleblower complaint is so damning President Donald Trump and his minions tried to conceal it from Congress and the public. It is so damning that a long list of Senate Republicans claimed not to have read it or refused comment.

As distressing as it is to see such a lack of regard for their duties, it is a sign that there are some things even Trump and Fox News cannot spin.

Indeed, it is the muted reaction of Senate Republicans that leads the list of disastrous signs for the president. The assumption that there could never be a vote to remove him or that it would never get Republican votes needs to be rethought, reports The Washington Post.

2. A second bad sign for Trump: The polls are already moving in favor of impeachment - and moving fast. An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll shows a plurality (49 to 46 percent) favors impeachment, a large bump from April, when 39 percent favored and 53 percent did not.

Likewise, the Morning Consult polls shows 43 percent favor and 43 percent oppose impeachment, including a small plurality of independents. These figures are stunning insofar as the rough transcript and whistleblower complaint have been out for only a couple of days.

3. A third negative indicator for Trump is that the involvement of so many people - possibly including Attorney General William Barr and acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney - gives this a Watergate feel and creates many witnesses.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (Did he know that two diplomats were trying to help Ukraine manage Trump's illegal conduct? Did he recall the ambassador to Ukraine at the request of Rudy Giuliani, Trump or others mixed up in this scheme?) was potentially involved as well.

4. Fourth, when Trump's remarks threatening a whistleblower immediately leaked one could see not only a new basis for impeachment but a willingness of all sorts of people to rat him out.

There is virtually no meeting or document that will be shielded from view given the number of people involved and the incentive some may have to step forward and be seen as cooperating with Congress, not as conspirators acting in furtherance of crimes.

5. Fifth, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has given the laboring oar to the Intelligence Committee headed by the very able Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., and on which two of the sharpest Democrats sit - Reps. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., and Eric Swalwell, D-Calif.

While ranking Republican Devin Nunes of California is clownish and disruptive, Rep. Will Hurd, R-Texas, a former CIA officer who is both conscientious and politically liberated since announcing his retirement, also sits on the panel.

6. Sixth, Pelosi has wisely decided to focus on the whistleblower material for impeachment. This topic alone could provide a basis for impeachment articles on abuse of power, obstruction and threatening a whistleblower.

This subject is compelling, recent and easy to comprehend. Some investigative work apparently was already done by the inspector general, making Schiff's job easier. Indeed, the incident is a microcosm of much of what is reprehensible about the administration - abuse of power, self-dealing, lawlessness, bullying, obstruction.

7. Finally, Trump is even less circumspect, disciplined and rational than usual. And why wouldn't he be? He may well be only the third president impeached and has a shot at being the first removed.

Surely he must see the walls closing in and the potential for removal, prosecution and, worst of all for a first-class narcissist, humiliation. He was so thickheaded he didn't even realise what was incriminating. He was so foolish as to take advice from the equally unhinged Giuliani.

There is little doubt he will be regarded as one of the worst, if not THE worst, presidents in history. As that rolls around in his weary brain, he is likely to become more self-destructive, antagonistic and downright crazy. All of that makes it that much easier for Republicans to abandon him.

[cavanami]

Plain and simple...