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It seems like the players standing for the national anthem is an age old NFL tradition but if we do a deep dive it isn't. It really didn't start until 2009. The military has been paying the NFL millions to do patriotic things like fly overs, and inclusion of military in the opening proceedings. The reason may have been that the military was finding very hard to talk our nations youth into joining and being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. 

https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

Has anyone actually seen this Nike ad? No matter how you feel about Kaepernick personally, it's hard not come from it inspired. Yes, at the end of the day they are trying to sell us merchandising but its a pretty inspiring ad and the 'sacrifice everything' statement is a snippet and its not something you would typically remember about it or it stood out. If anyone else, less controversial had done it, it would have been praised by everyone I think and the "sacrifice everything' controversy wouldn't be an issue...just my guess.. Kaepernick narrating it is the only thing about that changes it. Which I get. I get that totally. Its polarizing but that's what Nike seems to want to fly in the face of anyway.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/upasite/index.php?sid=04856d579b5bfc742008817345c55ec5

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Playing the national anthem before sporting events started during World War II. It continues because no one has had the nerve to stop it. But does it really belong before sporting events? Is there any real reason for it? Is sports really a patriotic epent?

 

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I guess I view things differently, maybe because I am "old school".  CK (sorry early morning typing) chose to go against the wishes of his bosses, he got fired, period.

I don't really care why he did it, he is entitled to his opinions as much as all of us, but his boss said stand, he didn't.

How many of you would have lasted in your job after telling your boss, "I know you want me to do this, but nahhhh I'm not going to".

He was talented, no doubt, I played college football but would never have made it in the pros, they are gifted individuals.  But did he risk more than the construction worker telling his boss that the job was too far to drive to? The migrant worker who said "I'm not picking today, you sprayed insecticide last night", The IT man who said, "I wrote the code my way, not really the way you wanted boss" (OK I know shit about IT).  Granted, he was a higher profile than other workers, but what, really, is the difference?

I'll admit I have not studied every piece of news on this but I would believe he had plenty of opportunity to discuss his desire to kneel with his management before, and after, and he should have known being released was going to be the result, unless his opinion of himself was higher than those in the management.

I've owned my own business most my working life, only 10 - 15 employees but still.  I used to tell my people that what I say isn't gospel, but I am the boss.  If you disagree, or want to do it a different way, talk to me.  But, mine is the ultimate decision since the business is my financial risk, if I say do this, and you do that, it sure as hell better work out better and, even then, their job is at risk.

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It couldn't just be part of a Nike attempt to distract attention from their own public relations record over Asian sweat shops, could it? Nah, I'm too cynical.

 

 

40844968_10161282346530393_7350459248586784768_n.jpg

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Nike has had sweatshops for ages and always made money. I personally don't think its to deflect off that because their sweatshops wasn't in the news. I think Nike is doing what Nike always does and that is to sometimes roll the dice and guess ahead of the curve. They are guessing in time, they will be on the "right" side of this issue. Its a gamble that may not pay off but early reports are financially it was a good move, despite the initial drop in stock price. http://time.com/5390884/nike-sales-go-up-kaepernick-ad/  

The 'boss is always right' or such similar views is accepted but its not always across the board. I grew up in Philly, heavily unionized city where school girls wore one of two jackets. Their boyfriend's letterman's jacket or their father's local union jacket and the latter was worn partially for protection or access because the various unions respected each other. Unions wouldn't cross a picket line. If the carpenter's union was striking, you weren't going to get the drywall union, plumbing union or anyone else to go into that building. No matter what their boss said. That was widely applauded. One could apply the same viewpoint in that case. The kneeling issue has morphed into an NFL union issue. The NFL negotiated with the player's union about how to come to an agreement about it. The NFL offered 100 million to causes last season to the NFL players union to stop kneeling. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21606390/nfl-offers-100-million-plan-social-justice-organizations-partnership-players  Some things the fans support that the players demand such as addressing head injury/concussion issues and some they don't, like the kneeling thing. 

Lastly, having sweatshops wasn't enough of a trigger to stop buying Nikes. It's interesting the kneeling issue is. lol

 

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12 hours ago, migrant said:

I guess I view things differently, maybe because I am "old school".  CK (sorry early morning typing) chose to go against the wishes of his bosses, he got fired, period.

I don't really care why he did it, he is entitled to his opinions as much as all of us, but his boss said stand, he didn't.

How many of you would have lasted in your job after telling your boss, "I know you want me to do this, but nahhhh I'm not going to".

 

Migrant 

But you are missing the point, in any Emplyer/Employee relationship what is expect of each other is laid out in the Terms and Conditions of the Contract of employment. 

I very much doubt that “Thou shall stand during the National Anther”was one of the T&C’s of such Contract but the employers prerogative.

it is like if worked for a Roman Catholic boss and he expected me to attend service every Sunday, if such was not written into the Contract  then I would be well within my right to refuse to do so. 

Now one thing which over rules Contract Law is Statute Law, if I were an Emploter and one of my Employees broke suck laws, Murder, Rape,  International Drug Running etc I would be well within my rights to firs his or hers sad arse, conversely if I was an Emplyee Doing such I would expect to get fired.

i am an outsider (non-American) but I am pretty sure there is no law which states “Thou shall stand and place hand on heart”whilst the Star Spangeld Banner is played. Majority of Americans do so out of a sign of respect to the Flag, the Anthem and the Nation because it is what there fore fathers did.

I hear it said “disrespectful to the Troops”Inam sorry when did the Arned Services have ownership of the “National”Anthem, that is the key word “National”it does not matter if I the forces fighting on the front line, representing a sporting Organisation, working for a corporation or waiting on people in a diner, each and everyone is a “National” therefore each and everyone owns the Anthem.

its like in Thailand, foreigners laugh when the Anthem is played before to screening of a movie at cinemas and everybody stands up, there was a case a few years back when a few Thais asked “Why?”and remained seated and they were hit with the rather antiquated “Less Majeste” a law which is frowned upon by Western Society yet now the US seems to be going a similar way

in the UK where I am from there is the law of Treason, to th best of my knowledge there are 8 grounds, amongst them attempting to harm the Monarch, starting a revolution against the state, and so on but not having to stand and sing the National Anthem, I could beat my arse if I wished pulling a full moony during the National Anthem and only arrested for indecency 

40 years ago when Betty was 25 years Queen the Sex Pistols recorded their versinon of “God Save the Queen”

God save the Queen, its a Facist Regime, no future, no future now, and it was allowed under freedom of speech, they were questioning the. Monarchy and Authorities but made no threat towards them, I doubt the same could happen in the States.

As stated I am an outsider, a casual observer so to speak, but please do not confuse Contract law with morals, if you ever went to litigation with me you would loose big time 

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I heard one commentator say that Kaepernick is seen as Ali - lite. The Ali during the Vietnam draft days was vehementally hated. My parents didn't like him at that time. Lots of after the fact faux support said about that time but in reality that period is seen completely opposite of how it was viewed back then by most Americans including blacks. He was moslem for a start and most blacks back then were deeply religious baptists or AME, anyway, the thinking is Nike (who won over 2 other major shoe companies it must be noted) is seeing him as a potential Ali sorta, kinda in terms of risking his job for his beliefs and that history will show him in the same vein as Ali, which may seem a bit too much honestly but that's the thinking. He'll become iconic and they will cash in on that. 

He's not as hated by vets as some think. https://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-support-colin-kaepernick-2016-8?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=desktop

Jesse Ventura applaulds him as well. The tea leaves are saying Kaepernick will come out positive on the right side of history eventually. Who knows. Another commentator on this said he would advise CK to drop the lawsuit against the NFL. The last thing he should want is to actually go back and sit on the sidelines and be marginalized. lol...the NFL in hindsight should have probably given him a QB job and just sideline him. 

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10 hours ago, Mekong said:

Migrant 

But you are missing the point, in any Emplyer/Employee relationship what is expect of each other is laid out in the Terms and Conditions of the Contract of employment. 

I very much doubt that “Thou shall stand during the National Anther”was one of the T&C’s of such Contract but the employers prerogative.

it is like if worked for a Roman Catholic boss and he expected me to attend service every Sunday, if such was not written into the Contract  then I would be well within my right to refuse to do so. 

Now one thing which over rules Contract Law is Statute Law, if I were an Emploter and one of my Employees broke suck laws, Murder, Rape,  International Drug Running etc I would be well within my rights to firs his or hers sad arse, conversely if I was an Emplyee Doing such I would expect to get fired.

i am an outsider (non-American) but I am pretty sure there is no law which states “Thou shall stand and place hand on heart”whilst the Star Spangeld Banner is played. Majority of Americans do so out of a sign of respect to the Flag, the Anthem and the Nation because it is what there fore fathers did.

I hear it said “disrespectful to the Troops”Inam sorry when did the Arned Services have ownership of the “National”Anthem, that is the key word “National”it does not matter if I the forces fighting on the front line, representing a sporting Organisation, working for a corporation or waiting on people in a diner, each and everyone is a “National” therefore each and everyone owns the Anthem.

its like in Thailand, foreigners laugh when the Anthem is played before to screening of a movie at cinemas and everybody stands up, there was a case a few years back when a few Thais asked “Why?”and remained seated and they were hit with the rather antiquated “Less Majeste” a law which is frowned upon by Western Society yet now the US seems to be going a similar way

in the UK where I am from there is the law of Treason, to th best of my knowledge there are 8 grounds, amongst them attempting to harm the Monarch, starting a revolution against the state, and so on but not having to stand and sing the National Anthem, I could beat my arse if I wished pulling a full moony during the National Anthem and only arrested for indecency 

40 years ago when Betty was 25 years Queen the Sex Pistols recorded their versinon of “God Save the Queen”

God save the Queen, its a Facist Regime, no future, no future now, and it was allowed under freedom of speech, they were questioning the. Monarchy and Authorities but made no threat towards them, I doubt the same could happen in the States.

As stated I am an outsider, a casual observer so to speak, but please do not confuse Contract law with morals, if you ever went to litigation with me you would loose big time 

Hi Mekong,

 

I do see your point but most of the T & C's I have seen (probably not as many as you, but seen my share) usually have some language that states the employee will perform the job given them unless illegal  or dangerous ( or some such language) .  There has been a lot in the news in the past about Muslims wanting to wear habibs, do their prayers and have been fired, or disciplined for that.  From what I have read the results tend to be mixed, some have said religious freedom, some have said detriment to the workplace.  I go from memory on this, no specific cite, I am retired mostly so try not to follow to closely!!

So kneeling isn't illegal, nor dangerous (although after a few drinks can be tricky) and would be freedom of expression, not religion, so would that hold up?  I don't know, and do not question your knowledge and experience.

You are correct that kneeling, or mooning, is not against the law (well kneeling anyway) but is it a part of the job?  

Has CK filed for wrongful termination?  I do not know.

But thanks Mekong for some differing thoughts!!

 

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