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And Pelosi is not the President, that orange sack of shit is. H'e just hired 17 new lawyers...

 Government Has Been Shutdown For:  19 days

 

simple formula :: No wall = open government.

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Who really cares. It's not like illegal immigration is such a big issue, or at least it would seem it shouldn't be.

 

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Given such data you have to wonder if making such a big noise about it isn't some sort of smokescreen for other really bad shit.

 

 

 

 

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Cons of Illegal Immigration
1. Menial and entry-level jobs go to illegal immigrants, not legal citizens.
A substantial number of low-paying training-type positions in certain industries are lost to illegal aliens, when these jobs could help prepare America’s workforce for the future.

2. Loss of tax revenue can hurt government programs.
Without the tax dollars that should be paid for jobs held by illegal immigrants, government programs that benefit all of us are being reduced or dropped. That hurts everyone to help a few.

3. Educational costs are rising.
The cost of teaching illegal immigrant children who aren’t legally eligible for special assistance programs like tutors and other educational resources, may be passed on to taxpayers.

4. Hospitals and medical providers treat illegal residents cheaply or at no cost.
Few practitioners will turn away illegal immigrants who apply for medical treatment or medicine, even if they cannot afford to pay for medical assistance. The unpaid cost of treating people who cannot afford to pay and are ineligible for social service programs is passed on to paying patients and their insurance providers, which means their costs can go up.

5. Bilingualism divides the nation.

6. Illegal immigration removes motivation for legal immigration.

7. Increased crime and terrorist activity

etc

 

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Has an elected official argued in favor of illegal immigration? My issue is with Stephen Miller setting immigration policy. In my humble opinion the guy is a closet (or maybe not so closet) bigot of the highest order. His main focus are latinos but in my experience, someone as triggered as him harbors the same feelings about minorities in general if you know what I mean. 

He's the one coaching Trump on immigration and he's the reason Trump doesn't like people such as myself who originated from the so-called "shit hole" countries. Miller wants immigration solely from white countries. And that kind of thinking means he has an issue with those of us who have been here for 400 years as well. 

Nigerians are the most educated immigrants. https://www.chron.com/news/article/Data-show-Nigerians-the-most-educated-in-the-U-S-1600808.php

There is nothing wrong with wanting specialized immigration and skilled applicants but we have never, ever been that kind of nation where its all we are. The writing on the Statue of Liberty says different. We already do bring in skilled. There is a special visa for those with computer programming skills which turned out to be mostly sub continent Indians. Steve Bannon was against doing that. So, if we're not bringing in skilled Indians, then this whole policy of "skilled" is mainly a call for skilled european ancesty.   Let's call it what it is. The white low birthrate has scared a lot of Americans. That is the real driving force behind the immigration issue. Do you know long it will take 180 million people to be extinct? Your grand kids, grand kids, won't even live long enough. This also assumes birthrate rates stay the same and that has never been that way in history. The economy, change in culture, etc, can and do change. The black American birthrate is also below the replenishing level. It's roughly 1.8, (https://www.statista.com/statistics/226292/us-fertility-rates-by-race-and-ethnicity/)which is well below the replacement percentage needed. We aren't crying about it either. haha....sorry had to go there. 

So, lets (and I mean America, not necessarily this forum) be honest about why this is an issue. Despite how we have always marketed ourselves as a "nation of immigrants' the real history says we have ALWAYS resisted immigration from anyone different than the ones already here. I've stated this several times in previous posts. There was much, much more animosity to immigrants in the 1800s from anyone who wasn't from the UK (excepting the Irish), and some acceptance for the French. Swedes and nordic people were "generally" accepted but they didn't congregate in the cities, the vast majority went to the north central states (look at the phone book 50 years ago for Anderson in many Minnesota and Wisconsin cities...it took up a quarter of some towns). Germans were hated even as far as back as the founding of the country, who Ben Franklin himself called "stupid, swarthy Germans" (swarthy? I would never think swarthy applied to Germans but that's me). Jews, any Eastern European people, ALL Catholics were hated far, far more than Latinos ever were. In fact there was a real concern that the country would be a vassal state of the Vatican if we let in too many Catholics and that belief was a whispered issue in the JFK campaign. 

So the point is we have always had an issue with immigrants and we have always been wrong about them. And let's be honest. there was a far, far greater reason back then to keep the Irish and Italians out. At one point in the 1800s, 69% of the crime in NYC were committed by the Irish. In fact, so many Irish were being arrested at one time, the police wagons were nicknamed "paddy wagons". The Italians of the 1900s formed the American version of the Mafia they had in Sicily and the size and scope of their criminality is well known. MS13 has nothing on them. Before the 2016 campaign, 99% of Americans never heard of MS 13. 

Again, illegal immigration needs to curbed. That's a given. But let's not overstate the issue as well. Especially when at one point there were about 50,000 Irish living illegally in NYC and Boston and living openly(https://www.thejournal.ie/undocumented-irish-trump-3906479-Mar2018/). There are about 100,000 Canadians living illegally in northern states (https://nationalpost.com/news/world/northern-aliens-around-100000-canadians-live-under-the-radar-in-u-s-as-illegal-immigrants)

It must be said ICE has been going after everyone. Haitians the most I believe I read once. Anyway, lets at least be frank and honest about why. 

 

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America is no longer or will soon no longer be the world's biggest economy. That is no shock. It was always going to be a matter of when not if China overtakes us. I read estimates of 2025 to 2030. 

I think even with a global recession it won't change much. Both China and America will be massively hurt by the impending crash but it must be said that China has been preparing for it. America hasn't. China is attempting to reduce its debt. America's debt is increasing at even faster rate than we were under Obama and Obama ran up debt like my ex Thai gf. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-economy-to-fall-behind-china-within-a-year-standard-chartered-says-2019-1

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3 hours ago, cavanami said:

 

Cons of Illegal Immigration
1. Menial and entry-level jobs go to illegal immigrants, not legal citizens.
A substantial number of low-paying training-type positions in certain industries are lost to illegal aliens, when these jobs could help prepare America’s workforce for the future.

Illegal immigrants "typically" take positions that Americans DON'T/WON'T do.

Myth #2: Illegal Immigrants are taking the jobs of American workers.

The vast majority of illegals come to America to work, and they work hard. The old myths about "lazy Mexicans" have been banished and we now realize that they find employment because they work hard for less money and take jobs that Americans no longer want to do.

Illuminate: "About 8 million of them have jobs making up almost 5% of our overall workforce, up to 9 or 10% in states like Texas, California and Nevada. Moreover, they constitute more than 50% of US farm-workers, 24% of maids and cleaners, and 15% of our construction workforce. In other words, they are filling positions in some of America's most physically demanding and unglamorous occupations."

And American business needs immigrant labor. Its not just that they can pay them less.

Bloomburg Business: "One oft-debated cure for this labor shortage remains as implausible as it has been all along: Native U.S. workers won’t be returning to the farm."

"In a study published in 2013, economist Michael Clemens analyzed 15 years of data on North Carolina’s farm-labor market and concluded, “There is virtually no supply of native manual farm laborers” in the state. This was true even in the depths of a severe recession."

"In 2011, with 6,500 available farm jobs in the state, only 268 of the nearly 500,000 unemployed North Carolinians applied for these jobs. More than 90 percent (245 people) of those applying were hired, but just 163 showed up for the first day of work. Only seven native workers completed the entire growing season, filling only one-tenth of 1 percent of the open farm jobs."

2. Loss of tax revenue can hurt government programs.
Without the tax dollars that should be paid for jobs held by illegal immigrants, government programs that benefit all of us are being reduced or dropped. That hurts everyone to help a few.

Texas says it collects more tax dollars from illegal immigrants than those people receive in benefits (Employers still have to take out deductions)

Myth #7: Immigrants are using up scarce resources in America.

Despite the fact that people living illegally in the US cannot claim federal benefits like welfare, Medicaid, and food stamps, some still argue that they consume more public services than they contribute in taxes and fees. Donald Trump has claimed illegal immigration costs $113 billion a year to the US, but such arguments over-estimate their use of state and local government services, vastly underestimate the amount undocumented immigrants pay in taxes, don't count the economic impact of their spending on goods and services, and ignore their contribution to the labor force.

For instance, many people believe that illegals don't pay federal taxes, however, the IRS estimates that about half of undocumented immigrants actually do file individual income tax returns each year, and Illegal immigrants pay social security and medicare payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits.

The same is true at the state level. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million illegal immigrants in Texas alone added almost $18 billion to the state's budget, and paid $1.2 billion in state services they used. The Texas state controller's office found that "undocumented immigrants in Texas generate more taxes and other revenue than the state spends on them."

Professor Francine J. Lipman addressed the cost-benefit question in his article "Taxing Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal and Without Representation" back in 2006. He notes that most cost-benefit analyses of the undocumented don't take into consideration their consumption of goods and services and subsidiary job creation.

He wrote in his abstract:

"Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy."

3. Educational costs are rising.
The cost of teaching illegal immigrant children who aren’t legally eligible for special assistance programs like tutors and other educational resources, may be passed on to taxpayers.

 

4. Hospitals and medical providers treat illegal residents cheaply or at no cost.
Few practitioners will turn away illegal immigrants who apply for medical treatment or medicine, even if they cannot afford to pay for medical assistance. The unpaid cost of treating people who cannot afford to pay and are ineligible for social service programs is passed on to paying patients and their insurance providers, which means their costs can go up.

Myth #5: Immigrants from Latin America are bringing diseases into the U.S. 

You often hear this myth on conservative talk-radio shows, but it's not supported by the facts.

International Business Times: "Immigrants from Mexico and Central America pose very little risk to U.S. residents in terms of spreading disease. Immunization rates for common infectious illnesses in Mexico and in other countries from which most U.S. immigrants originate are actually relatively high -- in some instances, Mexican and Central American immigrants are even better protected against diseases than Americans. While some immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border are indeed ill, very rarely are there cases of swine flu, dengue fever or tuberculosis, as politicians have previously claimed. "...

..."Immigrants tend to arrive in the U.S. tired, dehydrated and with injuries like twisted ankles, not dangerous diseases. The chance an unauthorized Mexican immigrant has been vaccinated against common infectious diseases is pretty high, given that Mexico has a relatively robust immunization program and healthy immunization rates. The country has a 99 percent vaccination rate for measles, which is actually higher than the U.S. rate of 92 percent. For other infectious diseases, the U.S. and Mexico have comparable immunization rates, according to the World Bank."...

..."Of course, immigrants aren’t arriving in the U.S. only from Mexico. They’re also coming from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, countries that also have high vaccination rates, around 93 percent -- still higher than in the U.S. (There are 113 countries that have higher immunization rates for some infectious diseases, including measles, than the U.S.)"

"A child from Guatemala is more likely to have been immunized for most infectious diseases than a young person from Texas, which, along with California, Florida, New York, New Jersey and Illinois, handles the bulk of new immigrants arriving in the U.S., both legally and illegally."

5. Bilingualism divides the nation.

Myth #6 Spanish-speaking immigrants to the United States don't assimilate as fast as European immigrants have in the past.

This is an easy one, despite the "press 2 for Spanish" jokes. Actually, people coming to America today are assimilating faster than the waves of immigrants who came before them.

Sociologist Claude S. Fischer has been studying this for some time and wrote the book, "Made in America" about the issue. In a recent article he wrote:

Timeline: "Unfortunately, Americans hold a warped collective memory of earlier immigration history. Many assume that the European immigrants of generations past assimilated quickly, unlike Latin American, Asian, or Muslim immigrants today. Not true. Lasting ethnic enclaves like Greektowns and Little Italys were typical. Today’s immigrants actually learn English and forget their native languages faster than did the earlier newcomers." 

6. Illegal immigration removes motivation for legal immigration.

7. Increased crime and terrorist activity

Myth #4: Illegal Immigration is driving up crime rates in the US.

This is a tough myth to bust, especially after President Trump's rhetoric during the 2016 election. But studies have shown that it's simply not true and that the recent Mollie Tibbetts case in Iowa is an isolated example that Fox news jumped on to support Donald Trump's anti-immigrant agenda. Actually, there is more evidence that undocumented immigrants have lower crime rates than native born Americans.

Some of the most recent research was summarized in an article last week by Emily Moon for the Pacific Standard:

Christopher Wilson, Washington Post: ... "FBI statistics I have analyzed for a forthcoming report for the Mexico Institute show that from 2011 to 2015, all but one of the 23 U.S. counties along the border had violent-crime rates lower than the national average for similar counties, a finding that echoes previous analyses.

From the Journal "Criminology": Recent research by Professor Michael T. Light, and PhD candidate Ty Miller showed that "undocumented immigration does not increase violence. Rather, the relationship between undocumented immigration and violent crime is generally negative, although not significant in all specifications."

Cato Institute: A Cato Institute study looked at prison data and found that the incarceration rate for native-born Americas was 1.53 %, compared to 0.85 % for illegal immigrants and 0.47 % for legal immigrants.

Myth #3: Terrorist groups exploit our border with Mexico.

Not to say that it's impossible, but, to date, there is not one single incident involving someone crossing the Mexican border and then successfully committing a terrorist act in the United States. None.

However, it is fair to note that Shain Duka, Britan Duka, and Eljvir Duka crossed as children with their parents in 1984 and then plotted to commit a terrorist act twenty years later which was thwarted by the FBI. But, no one that I am aware of has ever tried to argue that their parents crossed the border in 1984 so that their kids could commit an act of terrorism in 2007.

etc

Myth #10: A wall would stop illegal immigration because the vast majority sneak across the Mexican border.

To the extent that it was ever true [the whole ladders and tunnels problem], it is becoming less and less true because today many undocumented immigrants have simply overstayed their tourist, student, or work visas. That means that they entered the U.S. legally, but after overstaying their visa became undocumented.

Doris Meissner, former head of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, and current director of the U.S. Immigration Policy Program via PBS, Newshour: “People that came with visas are probably about 40 percent of that 10 to 11 million that are in the country illegally,” Meissner said.“

"They are often people who came here for short-term work on properly issued visas, but their employer wanted them to stay … They are often foreign students who finished their education and decided to stay without being able to renew their visas,”...

[Updated 1/7/19] An analysis by the Center for Migration Studies (CMS), a New York City-based think tank, found that only about one-third of recent undocumented immigrants came here via our southern border. The majority are arriving legally on some type of visa and then overstaying. 

CBS: "According to CMS, about 42 percent of the 10.7 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. in 2014 — the most recent year for which data was available — were doing so on expired visas. As the southern border has hardened, that number is estimated to have risen to over half, Randy Capps, director of research for U.S. Programs at the Migration Policy Institute, said."

"The fight over a border wall is a typical issue of 'fighting the last war': ten years ago was the fight against Mexican migration to the U.S.," Capps said in a telephone interview with CBS News. "The problem isn't Mexican migration anymore. Now the immigration problem is overstayers, not border crossers."

Most of the folks that you have seen on television in the last few months, such as those in the "caravan", attempting to enter the United States via the Southern border are asylum-seekers from Honduras or Guatemala. They are legally entitled to present themselves at the border to ask for asylum. They are then taken to a detention center and interviewed by an asylum officer. Most of their asylum requests will ultimately be denied by immigration judges and they will be returned to their country of origin. 

 

These are documented and seem well reasoned and backed by resources that "appear" legitimate and to a large extent FACT based. They do seem to follow with the graph published earlier, which was from PEW research. These apparent facts were found at illuminateourworld.org which might well be a product of satanists and other assorted woo-hoo's. I doubt ALL their references are though.

 

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1 hour ago, chocolat steve said:

Miller wants immigration solely from white countries. And that kind of thinking means he has an issue with those of us who have been here for 400 years as well. 

Historically America had laws that specifically did just that.

 

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