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Logic and reason dictates that Joseph Biden's son making 50k a month as a director of a company that he is no more qualified to be a director of than anyone on this thread means something is fishy. What Trump supporters are trying to conflate is that if Biden's son is guilty of something in Ukraine, then it justifies Trump's phone call. 

Two problems with that. First, Biden will have broken Ukrainian laws, not American laws. If you rob a bank in Thailand you are breaking Thai laws. You have not broken American laws. Second, Trump can not address it in the manner he did. Making that phone call is impeachable because he 1. bypassed the legally acceptable way to see if Biden broke any AMERICAN laws making that 50k a month and 2. Biden is a political rival and its self serving and illegal going after a political rival in that manner. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Flashermac said:

Ukraine must investigate Joe Biden's son, says ex-Ukrainian PM

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine/ukraine-must-investigate-joe-bidens-son-says-ex-ukrainian-pm-idUSKBN1WC1T3

 

Let's investigate everybody!

Exactly Flash, UKRAINE. It's Ukraine's business who they want to investigate. So these questions go begging, Why is a sitting US President telling another country who to investigate and more importantly, why is a sitting US President telling another country directly to investigate the son of a political rival? 

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10 hours ago, Coss said:

Oh and just for Cav, in case he forgets, his response:

 

Backpfeifengesicht.thumb.jpg.d28248b711186ba047c0870ada187078.jpg

Great ! It sums it all up.

 

Before quoting any previously or currently active Ukrainian official I strongly recommend to undertake a background check who it was/is and his role in a rotten mixture of policy , money and influence. In comparison to the Ukraine even the Trump gang is an example of honesty and truth. (Relatively only of course).

Biden junior making 50.000 a month for virtually nothing is an ethical issue but nowhere criminal . Biden senior should have taken him by the ears , slap on the ass and sent him back to school. But he didn´t which is bad and a perfect pass for Donald to issue another tumultuous statement mashing up anything that crosses his mind 04:00 in the morning.

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There was a fair amount of populism in Trump's 2016 campaign. He told people in swing states exactly what they wanted to hear. He told West Virginians he wanted to bring back coal, he told former factory workers in Ohio and Michigan he was getting their factories back. He told farmers in Iowa he was backing their issues. Nothing new or novel about that. Combined with Hillary who felt too good to visit Wisconsin, Michigan and others. So there were SOME people who didn't like him personally but voted out of their best interest (Obama voters who voted for him) but those were the people that tipped him over. 

Let's be clear though, he got a lot of bigots out tot he polls. There were very fringe right, so called alt right (who prior to re-branding themselves were your good 'ol neo nazis). Bannon and Breitbart were unknown to the general public prior to his campaign because both were white nationalists. White nationalists came out in droves. They finally found their candidate. The planets aligned. Trump came at a time when America was becoming demographically a country with no numerical majority of any race or ethnic group. That possibility scared a lot of people, the 'deplorables'  Hillary accurately identified. 

Trump exposed a side of America to the world that America knew was there but wanted to hide. The same way how George Wallace won 5 states in 1968 and 46 electoral votes. There really isn't much difference between the two campaigns. Not everyone who voted for Trump is a bigot obviously, not with hundreds of thousands Obama voters, voting for him or just Republicans who were going to vote GOP no matter what over a Democrat and held their nose. So, I am not saying that. I am saying that he brought millions of bigots out of the woodwork. 

Also, his supporters largely are hypocritical about his behavior. Trump is allowed to behave in ways and manner that they would be outraged if any other Democrat behaved. Definitely they'd ask for impeachment and demand it, had Obama behaved in similar fashion, even if no laws were broken. 

 

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...also, its time to do away with the electoral college. I could name a few reasons why it wasn't a good idea to begin with but I'll just state one. No Republican has won their initial election getting a majority of the popular vote since 1988. Let that sink in. They got in with less than a plurality. Had the roles been reversed we'd have gotten rid of it by now but the Dems are too incompetent. 

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Too much fun, here y'go Cav

Alleged "treason"¹  was part of a series of tweets on Sunday night and Monday morning in which Trump raised the specter of "civil war,"² said some of his own aides may be "SPYING" on him³, and accused the Democrats of trying to "destabilize" the country a year ahead of his 2020 re-election. https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/trump-attacks-impeachment-accusers-in-tweets-that-mentioned-civil-war/ar-AAI4gma?li=BBSVbAt

¹ Definition: In Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, treason is specifically limited to levying war against the US, or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. You know, like Donald and Putin....

² Civil War, in the USA? not in Donald's life time.

³ His own aides, hand picked, only the best people, the finest, most wonderful, the most beautiful, stable Geniuses, top people, everyone says so.

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What I am hearing from the mainstream media like CNN, who are not take news by the way. I don't like them actually for a few reasons but its not fake. Anyway, I think it was on there that there is a strong rumor that its not just the full Biden related call that people in the administration fear its the non impeachable stuff as well. Things Trump has said to world leaders, which were not illegal but makes him look very, very badly. 

Trump could (rightfully so) claim executive privilege for most if not all of it but its so damning and damaging it would alarm even his ardent supporters. I can certainly believe it. He speaks off the cuff and its not a stretch to believe Trump has said some outlandish things that could border on treason but not quite over that line and outright lies and embellishments. 

One of the items is his telling the Ukraine leader he wants him to make peace with Russia. The same Putin led Russia who annexed his country. WTF?! This is totally believable given Trump has said he wants Russia back in the G8 despite being kicked out for literally taking another country's territory. There is some Putin love in, that is highly suspicious. 

Again, I'm not saying he did anything illegal but some highly questionable acts and since his election his most ardent supporters have excused. It seems, as expected, they are willing to excuse clear cut illegalities that could lead to impeachment as well. I've been on record for supporting Obama back in '08 and held my nose but supported him in '12 as well but I would have had zero issues with articles of impeachment for among other things, ex judicial killings from drone strikes where we knew not only American citizens would be killed without the benefit of due process but the wive(s) and children of enemy combatants who were with him. The reason he wasn't impeached was because the Republicans fully support those acts and have continued under Trump. 

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I am dismayed and disappointed when polls are used to justify impeachment. I just heard a progressive talk about the polls are growing for impeachment. I say 'so what?' The people's opinion should have zero say about whether something is illegal or not. Either a law was broken or it wasn't. If it was impeach. It it wasn't, then don't. Simple as that. 

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