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"that has never been proven"

Trump is literally chasing conspiracy theories his own FBi and CIA and Defense Intel, and the world's greatest (maybe second to China ;) ) have debunked but because Alex Jones and others said it, it must be true. 

We literally have someone running the country who disregards our own intel agencies for some people who put up posts from their basement. The Senate themselves could have easily started a full blown investigation. They didn't because it was bullshit. 

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The USA (lack) of intelligence agencies have done such a good job...where were the WMDs? gun running, drug sales to pay for their black ops, etc etc

CS, you have a great routine for the comedy club 555555555555555555555

 

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4 hours ago, Flashermac said:

Burisma ... a Ukrainian oil company.

"Its founder, Mykola Zlochevsky, served as Ukraine’s minister of ecology and natural resources under President Viktor Yanukovych, who was swept from office by mass protests in 2014. Following that uprising, Western governments pressed Ukraine’s new leaders to investigate corruption. One of the initial subjects was Zlochevsky, who was accused of money laundering and abuse of power. Zlochevsky has denied any wrongdoing."

Biden's son was a lawyer for Burisma, receiving a heft salary for whatever it was that he did. Burisma was under investigation, and Trump claims that Pap Joe, then the Vice Pres, used his influence to keep his son from being investigated.  However, that has never been proven.

"Trump has said and tweeted that the Biden family “was paid off, pure and simple” and accused the family of corruption, extortion and “pillaging” foreign countries. He’s called them “stone-cold crooked” and publicly urged Ukraine and China to open criminal investigations of them."

Bloomberg is the source for all of the above quotes.

 

 

Apart from lying witness Donald using his phantasy again I am still not aware of a crime that Biden jun or sen might have comitted. Of course they invited junior Biden to join the board to improve their ( Burisma) public standing and he was overpaid but where is the crime. I am sure Cav can offer an appropriate website. ( Friends-of-the-flat-earth or something.)

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As you said, I don't know if this constitues a crime, but it isn't exactly praiseworthy. Of course the Kennedys, Clintons and Bushes are gilty of the same thing.

Joe Biden’s Family Has Been Cashing in on His Career for Decades. Democrats Need to Acknowledge That.

While Democrats pursue the impeachment of President Donald Trump for pressuring foreign countries to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden, they are left making an argument that is at once true and electorally and ethically compromising: What Trump did — and continues to do — was an impeachable abuse of power, and it should be considered separately from the question of what Hunter Biden did.

The problem for Democrats is that a review of Hunter Biden’s career shows clearly that he, along with Joe Biden’s brother James, has been trading on their family name for decades, cashing in on the implication — and sometimes the explicit argument — that giving money to a member of Joe Biden’s family wins the favor of Joe Biden.

Democrats have been loath to give any credibility to the wild rantings of Trump or his bagman Rudy Giuliani, leaving them to sidestep the question of Hunter Biden’s ethics or decision-making, and how much responsibility Joe Biden deserves. Republicans, though, have no such qualms, and have made clear that smearing the Bidens as corrupt will be central to Trump’s reelection campaign. The Trump approach is utterly without shame or irony, with attacks even coming from failson Eric Trump.

...

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/09/joe-hunter-biden-family-money/

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Joe Biden and what he and/or is son has done is pure deflection being used to justify Trump breaking the law. What the hell is Rudy doing essentially performing foreign policy privately? He is doing so at the behest of his client, Trump. Trump is a New Yorker and is doing what the mob does. Create layers between you and the crime so you have plausible deniability. 

Anyway, Trump is guilty as I am coming out of a Thai massage in Pattaya and claiming it was only a massage no extras. ;)   The Republicans in the Senate know so far they have political cover. Fox News' account of the impeachment is by far the highest rated over CNN, MSNBC and other media. 

The one good thing about this whole administration is that it has exposed a lot of people, especially the Republican party. Trump will lose in 2020 if the Dems don't snatch losing from the jaws of victory. I'm no fan of the Democratic leadership. Pelosi and the leadership needs to go. The Dems have lost their core values. After the 80s, with 3 big consecutive losses for the Presidency, Clinton and other like minded Dems convinced the party that they had to be more centrist and pro business and abandon unions to win elections and it worked with Bill getting elected twice and Obama twice. But in the meanwhile, it got worse for the middle class because now you have two parties who didn't give a shit about the poor and working poor and the middle class. 

Anyway, I digress. The Dems have the votes for an impeachment. Trump may not be convicted but he doesn't want that 'stain' on his legacy of being impeached. That coupled with the economy in the crapper for the masses, as well as people in the center just tired of him period, will lead to a victory if the Dems have someone who can bring people out to vote. That person is not Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, or even Biden I think but he will make it close. I don't think Warren can do it either. I think Sanders is their best bet. I'm speaking purely in analytical terms. 

These recent elections are a harbinger for next year. The impeachment proceedings will be like water over a rock and wear people down and they will get tired of Trump. There probably wont' be a vote on impeachment till the new year and the vote, even if it exonerates him as it will as he has the votes, it will still be more 'Trump is bad' stuff from the Dems. Sanders will have to choose his VP choice carefully, but he, more than any of the other Dems can actually speak directly to the farmers in the midwest and white working class in Michigan and Ohio and make it clear to them. He impressed everyone when he spoke at a Fox venue and warmed over the Republicans in the audience. 

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5 hours ago, cavanami said:

.where were the WMDs? gun running, drug sales to pay for their black ops, etc etc

more republican shady ops

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" Hunter Biden "didn't know anything about the industry he was in, he didn't have any discernible duties, and he's getting paid $50,000 a month? And then he gets a billion five from China? "

Copied from "Trump War Room" on Twitter. The billion five were to be collected by investors to be paid into an investment fund . Another brilliant example of the lies that the President of the United States has made his main tool ruling the country.

Looking at Giuliani´s role I guess they must have studied Godfather by Mario Puzo to know how a consigliere works. Don Donald and his gang.
 

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Fiona Hill and David Holmes are appearing together to testify before the House Intelligence Committee as part of the impeachment inquiry. Hill is a former senior director for Russia on the National Security Council and Holmes is a diplomat in the U.S. embassy in Kiev. Hill has raised concerns about Rudy Giuliani's attempts to pressure Ukraine into announcing investigations into Trump's political rivals. Holmes overheard EU Ambassador Gordon Sondland discussing the investigations with Trump the day after his July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. (NPR / CNN / CBS News / Axios / New York Times)

I've been watching this: Witnesses stating facts and in a non partisan way. Dems, asking questions. Republicans saying things like' isn't this terrible what the president is going through', the Republicans are not disputing the facts, they are trolling out conspiracy theories one after the other.

So much so, they often forget to ask the witness questions, instead reading from their script, as a statement. So the Donald doesn't fire them, for not defending him.

And this testimony, particularly Fiona Hill's, is damning.

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Devin Nunes is bleating about Comey now, and the Washington Post, from 2017 and blah blah blah

It seems that he is going over the history of Trump negatives, as a justification for Trump's innocence.   

He's now complaining that someone made the contents of the phone call public - this after Trump released a transcript and Sondland testified that  a similar call took place in public in a restaurant with Trump shouting into Sondland's phone so everyone could hear...

 

 

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Another of the laughs is :

Because the investigations into the Bidens didn't take place, no crime.

Like, I shoot a bullet at you, it misses, no crime, not even attempted murder.

Or I go into a bank and hold up the staff and drop the loot on the way out, no crime.

The republicans are really scrabbling, they haven't even tried to say these calls and this campaign by Trump never took place. They're just trying to say, so what? no crime.

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