Usa Thread

[Central Scrutinizer]

Stock market fell to 10,810. In the last 2 weeks the stock market has fallen 15%.

 

This news should provide jubilation for those who want Obama to fail.

 

.

 

How much lower will the stock market decline?

 

 

 

 

Who knows. Right now I wonder what will happen if Italy and Spain fail. Germany can't cover all the debts of the EU countries. How will that play out?

 

Double dip US recession? Nah. More like a depression I'd say. It'll get much worse before it gets better I think. Time to pay the piper.

[kamui]

Steve, I fear you have lost the plot. The parties are DEFINITELY arguing ideology. The conservatives are arguing against irresponsible spending on the part of the government and the increasing size and authority of the federal government. The libtards are arguing for just the opposite. Both sides are equally dug-in. It's a Mexican Standoff and nobody's blinking

HH

You still haven't got it. The world market is crashing because of the downgrading. The downgrading happened for three reasons:

the huge debt

the political instability forced by the GOP

the conclusion that pure austerity won't lower the debt that much.

Don't forget when the USA economy worked best: consumers with money in their pockets (because of a decent income), almost equal taxes for all groups of the society, and strong government bodies which checked that the major players played fair.

 

And who forced the negotiations much too long until the last minute (and took the moderate GOPs hostage) even though the Dems had made the biggest concession in their history several weeks ago? The Tea Party GOP, because they even wanted it all - like being the ruling party. This is actually the published opinion of the few surviving centrist GOPers.

IMHO the Tea Party GOP has a kind of death wish - they prefer the government to becoming dysfunctional or even to collapse for their pure ideology. I guess they are getting their wish fulfilled, but now they are learning that this has consequences for all US Americans (some GOP candidates and presidential candidates even denied that it would have had any consequences if the debt deal would have failed.) I remember that in the endof the debt negotiations Wallstreet and the major corps began to panic when they realized what the GOP was doing, but now it was too late: big money had opened Pandora's box and let the Tea Party GOP amateurs run amok in Washington D.C..

 

The right wing GOP never did and they still don't care for the country and the common good. Just have a look at them, most are a bunch of newbie amateurs who mostly declared that they are not interested in being reelected (i. e. being held accountable), funded by the super rich and the mega corporations.

In Germany we know from the time before 1933, that if the institutions are weak and if there are fraction(s) who want to kill the whole democracy they can do so.

 

By the way, to hear you talking of class warfare in regard to Obama is quite funny. As you know the blue collar workers has lost so much in past decades that they are now back on the income level of the the 1970s, (the Hispanics lost astonishing 67% in the past years) while the rich got and are getting even richer. How was the pay increase in 2010 for the Wall Street banker and the corp managers? 20% if I remember right. Obama just talked about making fuel prices for private jets more expensive and closing some tax loopholes and you call this class warfare.

 

The greatest achievement of the GOP IMHO is, that they were able to sell their politics are being really good for the average American, while at the same time they did and do everything, that life is becoming more worse for them. Lower income, higher health care and education costs, less social security, less protection against predatory banks and other corps, their sons being killed and crippled in two wars, e.g..

[Flashermac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwqPBlSxb-0&feature=related

[Hugh_Hoy]

You still haven't got it. The world market is crashing because of the downgrading. The downgrading happened for three reasons:

the huge debt

the political instability forced by the GOP

 

The world market is not crashing and it won't crash. (But if it does, it will be the liberal European countries that cause such a mess when they default.) The rest is just libtard bullshit and not worth addressing.

 

HH

[kamui]

<br>The world market is not crashing and it won't crash. (But if it does, it will be the liberal European countries that cause such a mess when they default.) The rest is just libtard bullshit and not worth addressing.

 

HH

 

I guess you are living in a parallel universe...

 

Today's headline in Germany: Biggest losses at the stock market since Lehmbrothers went down.

 

And on yesterday's market: The fear among investors has reached epidemic proportions, with the sell-off erasing $8.1 trillion — or 14.8 percent of market capitalization — from global stock markets since July 24.

My link

 

[kamui]

The rest is just libtard bullshit and not worth addressing.

 

HH

 

Your response is interesting: using degrading vocabulary and a non-answer. You underscore what I said before about the right wing conservatives: Not even interested in a civil discourse anymore, just hollow talking points.

 

Anyway, and speaking of "class warfare" I guess you gave a non-answer, because you can't deny the obvious numbers.

And Im sure you will downplay even these facts from a GOP (ex congress) member:

 

Quote:

In late 2009, Business Week reported that the divide in corporate America was only getting worse: “While we’re seeing record-low budgeting for base salaries, we’re seeing record-high budgeting for bonuses.â€

The article showed evidence that CEO bonuses were at their highest levels in the 33 years the data have been recorded.

“What’s counterintuitive,†according to a compensation expert interviewed by Business Week, “is that the highest level of funding for bonuses is occurring in the heart of the recession.â€

“Counterintuitive†seems to be a bit of an understatement. Shortsighted and stupid better describes a trend that cannot be seen as good for the long-term health of America’s economy.

While these income disparity trends were bad under George W. Bush, they have only gotten worse over the last three years.

Since 1970, executive pay has increased 430 percent while workers’ wages have crept up at a pace that barely kept up with inflation. The average executive’s pay has jumped over that time period to 158 times that of the average worker’s pay in those companies. It’s no wonder that the top 0.1 percent of income earners get richer by the day while millions of Americans are seeing their situations get worse.

 

Politico

 

[Steve]

HH ole buddy. Sorry, but I have NO faith in the Republican party. I do not think if they controlled the Congress by a fillibuster proof majority and the white house and had 2 consecutive 2 term presidents that the country would be better off. Not saying the Dems would have the problems solved as well but frankly, the Republicans scare me more. I never thought I'd say that. For the most part, I've supported Republicans over Dems for the presidency (when I wasnt supporting some 3rd party candidate as a protest).

 

Its also exasperated by the social conservatives. They scare the living hell out of me. This is coming from a Christian. Whoremongering one but technically a saved Christian. The chritianity I was taught and read in the bible is vastly different than the ones the religious right do. I've often spoken of my parents being very loving, inviting folks, and all of us kids would invite one and all, all faiths or even no faith to xmas or thanksgiving because we knew that they'd get a loving reception. Its the reason why I can befriend anyone that doesn't look like me, think like me or bang the same gender as me. However, these guys though are a hate filled bunch. A judgmental one. Its divisive and they control the party or at least have a strong say in it.

 

As far as ideology, I can't accept that they are arguing ideology because BOTH parties are owned by special interest. I can't see how the Republicans pure unless the ones that are contributing (big oil, defense, etc.) share the same ideology. Doubt it.

 

The Dems aren't much better but they scare me less. The fringe of both parties scare the hell out of me, but the Republicans scare me the most. Too many sat idly by as Dubya led as a theocracy for 8 years.

 

911 got us a lot of sympathy. We weren't liked before (not entirely our own fault) but the world felt badly for us after. We had a great opportunity to change our rep and we made it worse!!

 

I totally agree with cutting waste and its my main beef with the Dems.

 

To answer your question of who is gonna create jobs. Its not always the rich, Bill Gates wasn't rich when he began, neither were most of the enrepreneurs who created new ways of doing things, new ideas, etc. Its been that way in our whole history. We have a country where we've always fostered thinking out of the box, new ides, etc. While I agree about trade agreements hurting some companies it doesn't explain it all. We had bad trade agreements in the '90s during a great ecoomic cycle. The auto companies didn't help themselves going back to the '70s. Sure, Japan did some dirty pool but the car makers were lazy and took us all for granted.

 

The banks had all the freedom in the world. The airlines as well. Bad trade agreements didn't get us into this mess. It didn't help but we could have been doing well despite them.

 

If you have a good idea and go about it right, you can make a lot of money. Its always been that way. I'm not buying the tax angle. The tax code has been easily overcome by the big boys. Many of these corporations pay way less than the stated rate. They have the money to hire the best tax attorneys to skirt the laws and half of the new laws they have lobbyists who write it or write in loopholes.

 

I see NO WAY out of this mess. Its endemic and pervasive throughout the whole structure. I want enough to slink off to somewhere, rural and quiet away from it all one day to live out my days when it all goes to hell. Be it Issan, some quiet central or south ameerican village. Somewhere nice and quiet.

 

Damn, I sound like a downer of a guy. You know I'm not, you've met me, but the rest have got to be thinking I'm sour puss faced, negative guy. lol.

[kamui]

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

If I have it all wrong, then Barry Obama does too. First, his top-notch advisor blamed the falling NYSE/Dow Jones on the Tea Party; then Obama blamed it on Congress (leaving himself out of the equation); now he blames GWB for the deficit he inherited (and for which he campaigned strongly); now he blames Liberal policies in European countries. Like I said before, Demoncraps know no boundaries when pointing fingers and refusing to accept any responsiblity. It's in the DNA of Libtards.

 

Those guys in the boat: they among the 140 who paid $15,000 to get their photo taken with Obama yesterday? The guy is like OJ out looking for the real killer. Instead of working on the dizzying issues of the country, he's out campaigning. (Actually, wouldn't bother me one bit if he never returned to Washington, accept as part of a parade and seranaded by a dirge.) I can just imagine all of the GOP presidential hopefuls licking their chops when they read a preview of what some say will be Obama's defense of his policies. If Obama isn't politically DOA next year, the country will be.

 

As I said, the market didn't "crash":

 

"Stocks were rebounding the day after the Dow saw its largest drop since December 2008 as the market looked to the Federal Reserve to provide guidance about the weak economy when it delivers its rate decision Tuesday afternoon.

 

At 11:06 a.m. ET, the Dow Jones Industrial Average ($INDU) was up by 170 points, or 1.6%, at 10,979. The S&P 500 ($INX) was up by 24 points, or 2.2%, at 1,145. The Nasdaq ($COMPX) was rising by 66 points, or 2.8%, to 2,425."

 

HH

[Bangkoktraveler]

Stock market is now at 10,925.00.