Usa Thread

[Steve]

I am not American, and I may never understand the motivation behind American foreign policy over the last 50-60 years, but I have to ask just one question :

 

Why do the American people allow the CIA to continue to derail the positive impact of their efforts overseas ?

 

In a conversation with an American recently, he told me that the CIA operates completely independently of the Congress - I can only assume that makes them 'accountable' to exactly one man. The man who, presumably, signed off on the genocide of the Hmong people on the Plain Of Jars in Southern Laos, with his advisors whispering in his ear that it was for the 'greater good'. The same man the CIA had killed in full view of the public in 1963, which might explain why no-one has tried to challenge their power since. Happy to hear otherwise.

 

The CIA doesn't operate in a vacuum. It is accountable...on paper at least. Congress authorizes the money for all government functions. The CIA's budget is secret as far as I know but there have been leaks that its over 40 billion a year. There are also Congressesional committees that are privy to what they are doing. They are controlled, at least organizationally by the Executive Branch (President) by the chain of command.

 

The problem to me at least is that so much of their work is deemed secret and under 'national security'. Its how they've hidden things in the past but it got tougher for them to do that when acts that were either deemed improper, immoral, unethical or illegal came to light. Since 911 though I think they got a freer hand than before 911. Just my guess.

 

I think (but not sure), I am like most Americans with regards to them (and the FBI, and most law enforcement and intelligence agencies we have). You are glad to have them but fear them. You want them to stop the 'bad guys', stop terrorism, etc., but also you dread the day you are ever the focus of their attention. You have a feeling that even if you're innocent, if they deem you a threat you are f*cked.

 

To some extent what they do overseas to a lot of Americans is like like the old adage about bacon. You enjoy it but don't want to see or know how its made. If the CIA needs to get their hands dirty in a 'ends justifying the means' situation that ultimately protects us, a lot of folks would just want to stay ignorant.

 

Personally, I'd rather we do things above board. Yes, there are gray areas. However, I'd rather operate in the lighter part of that gray area if push comes to shove.

[Bangkoktraveler]

So you've been talking to Cav' date=' have you. Tin hat time again.

 

[/quote']

 

Flash, I freely admit that I watch way too many docos made by lefty types with an axe to grind. Even if 50% of what they say can be attributed to the CIA is fact, its just scary.

 

As the American who spent a lifetime trying to help the people of Laos, particularly the Hill Tribes, put it 'This isnt about body count - they didnt leave any bodies. These people were vaporised, incinerated and torn to pieces in the continual bombardment'. I could insert quotes from Wikipedia on the amount of ordnance that the USAF dropped on Laos, but its all a moot point now - the US lost to both the North Vietnamese and the Pathet Lao, a generation of young Americans was scarred by a war they didnt need to fight and the US literally sowed the seeds for another unwinnable war : the war on that-of-which-we-dare-not-speak. Don't even get me started on Cambo : thats a topic for a whole new thread.

 

 

 

In a way, we might be delusional. As a country we think we are always right, never wrong and indestructable.

 

In reality, we have farked one country after another. We have killed our own people (Native Americans) and see nothing wrong with the genocides we have committed.

 

Now we are broke and like a prostitute on drugs looking for the next fix, we have borrowed from everybody, especially our senior citizens, with no intentions of paying any of the money back.

[gobbledonk]

Thanks for the feedback, guys - I know you have no more power to change US foreign policy than I do, but its sad that the CIA have more power than they did pre 9-11, an attack which they failed to protect the US people from. I dont know if its a conspiracy theory, but you will all have heard about the warnings coming out of the FBI in the days before 9-11 : I guess its all history now.

[Hugh_Hoy]

but its sad that the CIA have more power than they did pre 9-11

 

I guess that can be considered an "opinion", rather than a fact. :content:

 

HH

 

P.S. Unless you are aware of laws relating to the sharing of intelligence with law enforcement which were in effect prior to 9-11, you might consider tempering any perceived criticism of the CIA regarding the attacks.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

but its sad that the CIA have more power than they did pre 9-11

 

I guess that can be considered an "opinion"' date=' rather than a fact. :content:

 

HH

 

P.S. Unless you are aware of laws relating to the sharing of intelligence with law enforcement which were in effect prior to 9-11, you might consider tempering any perceived criticism of the CIA regarding the attacks.

[/quote']

 

 

 

Before 9/11/2001 we had a system that worked. It got us thru the Cold War.

 

But on 9/11/2001 it was like nothing was working. What was literally mathmatically impossible became possible.

 

Hard to believe what happened was allowed to unfold.

[Flashermac]

Federal Agency Headquarters Leave Lights On In DC

 

 

WASHINGTON (WUSA) -- Night after night, year after year, this nightside reporter observed lights left on in federal government buildings. So I decided to see just how much taxpayers were spending to keep empty buildings illuminated.

 

For several months, we kept track of the lights left on in a dozen federal buildings, including the Departments of Commerce, Agriculture, Transportation and Energy always checking after 10 p.m., each on at least six occasions.

 

"Turn the lights off. That's what I do anyway. That's how I save money," said one visitor from North Dakota.

 

[color:red]Just how much are the federal agencies electricity bills costing you, the taxpayer? First, using the Freedom of Information Act, we requested six months of utility bills for the headquarters buildings of more than a dozen agencies. Then, we asked taxpayers to estimate the price of one month in one building[/color].

 

'Whew. $3,000 a month?" one woman estimated.

 

"$5,000 a month?" guessed a young man from New Jersey.

 

"Monthly? $5-10,000," said a man from Virginia.

 

[color:red]The low end is about $200,000 a month. The high end more than a million. One month's electricity bill at the Department of Labor topped a MILLION dollars. That was a bill paid in July of last year. The month before, the department paid a bill of nearly $700,000. And utility costs of that magnitude are not unusual.[/color]

 

"Whoooo. That's too much!" exclaimed a taxpayer.

 

"Maybe the perception is, they want to tell the American people that we're always on," speculated another.

 

The Department of Health and Human Services paid a bill last August of $799,000 for a month of service.

 

"Oh my God. That is per month?" was one reaction.

 

The Department of Commerce paid a bill last June of $794,000.

 

[color:red]"I used to work for the federal government. I know they waste tax dollars. Do it every day," said a man in DC.

 

"Turning off the lights is about the simplest way that the government can save money. There is no excuse not to do this on a regular basis," said Tom Schatz, President of Citizens Against Government Waste.[/color]

 

Most federal agencies purchase their electricity through PEPCO and Constellation New Energy of Baltimore. The buildings are large, and some appear to be making an effort to turn off their lights consistently, like the Department of Health and Human Services. The Department of Energy headquarters was so dark on one of our nighttime visits, we could barely see its sign.

 

"We're stewards of taxpayer dollars, were stewards of these precious energy resources, and it only takes a moment to turn a light switch off, but it has an impact," said Brian Costlow,

 

The Department of Energy may be making an effort, but its monthly electricity bills still average $260,000.

 

"It has to do with changing the culture," said Costlow.

 

The Department of Energy's 4,000 employees have a monthly competition.

 

"It's all about who, or what part of the building, can yield the greatest reduction in their energy demand each and every month," said Costlow.

 

The Federal Aviation Administration's side-by-side Wright Buildings, on Independence Avenue, administered by the General Services Administration, always appear to have the majority of their lights on, including those in the cafeteria, even though a metal gate keeps anyone from entering after hours.

 

The Environmental Protection Agency appears to leaves its lights on. At the Department of Education, several floors always seem illuminated. Only one time, at the Department of Agriculture, did we see a cleaning person through a window.

 

 

Written by Andrea McCarren

9NEWS NOW & WUSA9.COM

 

 

[Flashermac]

 

 

hvrb7YqdvxE

[Bangkoktraveler]

What the hell is going on with our country?

 

Our banker is the commies.

Our President according to the GOP is a commie Muslim and not even a US Citizen.

 

I am not a US citizen. No big deal. I don't even recognize the US.

 

My passport says I am a citizen of the USA which includes the 50 States, District of Columbia and territories.

[TheCorinthian]

I am not American, and I may never understand the motivation behind American foreign policy over the last 50-60 years, but I have to ask just one question :

 

Why do the American people allow the CIA to continue to derail the positive impact of their efforts overseas ?

 

In a conversation with an American recently, he told me that the CIA operates completely independently of the Congress - I can only assume that makes them 'accountable' to exactly one man. The man who, presumably, signed off on the genocide of the Hmong people on the Plain Of Jars in Southern Laos, with his advisors whispering in his ear that it was for the 'greater good'. The same man the CIA had killed in full view of the public in 1963, which might explain why no-one has tried to challenge their power since. Happy to hear otherwise.

 

 

A few points:

 

Who ever you were speaking to apparently knows next to nothing about the US System, but that is not surprising, and got most of that from movies.

 

The CIA reports to congress, specifically to the Committee on Intelligence and since 2004 the DNI. It is not true that they answer to "just one man." In fact, nothing in the US does that except for maybe some small companies. Even the president answers to the people as is evidenced by the one term presidents we have had and the extreme 180s of power we have now seen twice in the past 3 years.

 

Does the CIA fuck up? Hell yes. But everyone does that. The Dept. of Education and the Public Parks people screw up all the time, the difference if the expectation. It is just not fair to expect perfection esp in this area. Add to that that the group can not even announce a success, and anyone would look very very bad in public light.

 

The US MIlitary has mistakenly killed more people in the past 10 years than the CIA ever has in its history. But many of you that have been in the military know that yes.... we fuck up. It is almost never the intention. Things just fuck up sometimes and we try to learn and go forward. And when malice is shown, there is a huge investigation that convicts way more people than it ever lets go free. Again, this happens in CIA too... you just dont hear about it.

 

(Take any of us, only talk about the bad things you have done and none of the good and our neighbors would hang you from a light poll.)

 

I know about 20 serious and former serious players in this area. I know of 4 that have been ruined (Jail, financial penalties, cant get a job except at McDs) and deservedly so for over stepping their bounds. But again, the problem is that you still cant talk about it because that puts other operations and methods at risk.

 

 

Before 9/11/2001 we had a system that worked. It got us thru the Cold War.

 

But on 9/11/2001 it was like nothing was working. What was literally mathmatically impossible became possible.

 

I disagree. The system really broke about 1990 and 9/11 was the result. The system did not break on 9/11 because if it had worked before that... 9/11 would not have happened.

[Bangkoktraveler]

The CIA probably operates very similar to how Crowley Dake operated when he circumvented the Posse Comitatus Act.