Usa Thread

[Steve]

I completely understand the feelings of those who are fed up with illegal immigration. I am too but frankly ending birthright citizenship is reactionary. Its a slippery slope and these things NEVER end with just that. Mark my words, they will make naturalized citizenship like permanent residency in the long run whereby you can take it away or it has an expiration date you have to renew.

 

One of our founders, Alexander Hamilton was not born in the U.S.

 

This is NOT the way to address the illegal immigration issue.

 

We need to deal with it from its roots. The blame for the mess when it comes right down to it, are ourselves. We vote in a government from Congress to the White House that puts a band aid on the issue, avoids dealing wtih the realities of it and is too scared politically to do what needs to be done.

 

 

[Steve]

I was going to put this in the Board Bar but feared the ire of non Americans.

 

Mom Arrested For Shooting Her Kids For Talking Back

First time I read the headline to this I thought it had to be one two things both opposites of the same coin. Ghetto black or trailer park white. If you're honest you did too...lol...tragic as it is.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tampa_teens_shot

 

An arrest affidavit said Schenecker shot her son twice in the head in the family car "for talking back" as she drove him to soccer practice. The report said Schenecker then drove to their upscale home and shot her daughter in the face inside the home.

 

Schenecker's mother called police Friday morning, and told them she was concerned after her daughter had sent an e-mail saying she was depressed. Officers found Schenecker drenched in blood on her back porch  and once they saw the teens, the scene was so troubling that a stress team was called to counsel the responding officers, a police spokeswoman said.

 

However, it turns out she was neither. What makes it even sadder is its a military family.

 

Schenecker's husband, Parker Schenecker, is a career Army officer attached to U.S. Central Command in Tampa. He was working in the Middle East when the shootings happened.

 

In 2008, the family moved to Tampa and bought a $448,000 home in a quiet, upscale suburban neighborhood.

 

Edited January 30, 2011 by Guest

[Mekong]

 

One of our founders, Alexander Hamilton was not born in the U.S.

 

 

 

Steve

 

You could go further and state that the Founding Fathers of the United States were in fact themselves the offspring of illegals

[Hugh_Hoy]

I'm not sure there were immigration laws back in the 1700's in the colonies.

 

HH

[Central Scrutinizer]

"One of our founders, Alexander Hamilton was not born in the U.S."

 

Er, well, he came into the country before there actually was a country didn't he? We were still colonies I believe then? And, did he arrive in the colonies legally? Big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants anyway. Many legal immigrants/citizens were not born in the USA. It is part of what/who we are, a nation of immigrants, especially the early years. My grandparents were immigrants, 'legal' immigrants. Irish, French, and Swedish. All became citizens with all the rights that entitled them.

 

You need to differentiate between the legal immigrants, who come to the US looking for a better life for themselves and their children/families, and the illegal ones (looking for the same thing for themselves and family granted, usually), but they cheated, and so, should get nothing of these same rights granted legal immigrants who work hard to become citizens and Americans.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Guest

[Flashermac]

Alexander Hamilton was born in a British colony - Nevis, in the British West Indies. As such he was a British subject and had every right to settle in any other British colony. Not a very good example, Steve - especially when you consider that EVERY ONE of the founding father's was not born in the US. There was no US at the time.

 

In fact Martin Van Buren, the 8th president, was the first to have been born in the United States. Van Buren is also the only president whose first language was not English. (His family spoke Dutch at home.) I was surprised to see that his father owned 6 slaves in New York.

 

 

[Steve]

"One of our founders, Alexander Hamilton was not born in the U.S."

 

Er, well, he came into the country before there actually was a country didn't he? We were still colonies I believe then? And, did he arrive in the colonies legally? Big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants anyway. Many legal immigrants/citizens were not born in the USA. It is part of what/who we are, a nation of immigrants, especially the early years. My grandparents were immigrants, 'legal' immigrants. Irish, French, and Swedish. All became citizens with all the rights that entitled them.

 

You need to differentiate between the legal immigrants, who come to the US looking for a better life for themselves and their children/families, and the illegal ones (looking for the same thing for themselves and family granted, usually), but they cheated, and so, should get nothing of these same rights granted legal immigrants who work hard to become citizens and Americans.

The point is he could not be electd president. ALL the founders were born before there was a country. The point was they were ALL born in the American colonies and they wanted only someone born there who had a 'natural' stake in the country with no ties to any foreign power by birth or otherwise.

Many of the european immigrants that came here decades ago were illegal. The Italians in particular I recall, but a host of them. There is a difference between illegal but there is no difference between someone born on American soil. Their parentage doesn't matter. Its always been that way. Birth citizenship was always seen as sacrosanct. We are a country of immigrants so it really makes it a very touchy issue. I think a lot of us who are the children or grandchildren of immigrants have forgotten the importance of it.

I do think its a very, very slippery slope and it won't end there. In fact, I'm certain of it.

[Steve]

"One of our founders' date=' Alexander Hamilton was not born in the U.S."

 

Er, well, he came into the country before there actually was a country didn't he? We were still colonies I believe then? And, did he arrive in the colonies legally? Big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants anyway. Many legal immigrants/citizens were not born in the USA. It is part of what/who we are, a nation of immigrants, especially the early years. My grandparents were immigrants, 'legal' immigrants. Irish, French, and Swedish. All became citizens with all the rights that entitled them.

 

You need to differentiate between the legal immigrants, who come to the US looking for a better life for themselves and their children/families, and the illegal ones (looking for the same thing for themselves and family granted, usually), but they cheated, and so, should get nothing of these same rights granted legal immigrants who work hard to become citizens and Americans.[/quote']

LOL...okay, you're right but I think you're being pedantic with regards to the point. The point is Hamilton could not be electd President but he is regarded as one of our founders. ALL the founders were born before there was a country. The point was they were ALL born in the American colonies and they wanted only someone born there who had a 'natural' stake in the country with no ties to any foreign power by birth or otherwise.

Many of the european immigrants that came here decades ago were illegal. The Italians in particular I recall, but a host of them. There is a difference between illegal but there is no difference between someone born on American soil. Their parentage doesn't matter. Its always been that way. Birth citizenship was always seen as sacrosanct. We are a country of immigrants so it really makes it a very touchy issue. I think a lot of us who are the children or grandchildren of immigrants have forgotten the importance of it.

I do think its a very, very slippery slope and it won't end there. In fact, I'm certain of it.

Your Irish ancestors would not have been allwoed in the USA if certain elements had their way. The US has limited immigration from east and south europe at one point because they wanted to maintain a more WASPish look and not a more 'swarthy' nation. There was a major push to limit immigrants from Catholic nations because of the unfounded fear that we'd be run by the pope eventually.

We've limited immigration on Jews coming here, espeically from eastern europe.

Birthright citizenship has NEVER made it to the level of national debate before. Why? It was seen as sacrosanct. It was American. It was always regarded as such. Its a very dangerous thing to start changing what was regarded as American to something that isn't 'American' any longer. As I said, if you set that precedence, ANYTHING can and I think will happen and it won't stop there. We have always exanded what it is to be American since we are a land of immigrants and proudly so. Also, 25% of the children aren't even hispanic. http://www.hacer.org/current/US313.php

 

Lets be honest, its a hispanic issue. If they were Irish (and many in NYC and Boston are here illegally) no one would be making a fuss and a lot of those Irish have kids here.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Guest

[Steve]

re-edited.

[Steve]

Alexander Hamilton was born in a British colony - Nevis, in the British West Indies. As such he was a British subject and had every right to settle in any other British colony. Not a very good example, Steve - especially when you consider that EVERY ONE of the founding father's was not born in the US. There was no US at the time.

 

In fact Martin Van Buren, the 8th president, was the first to have been born in the United States. Van Buren is also the only president whose first language was not English. (His family spoke Dutch at home.) I was surprised to see that his father owned 6 slaves in New York.

 

 

I made my point clearer in another post. He had a right to be there but NOT a right to be elected president because he was not born in the American colonies. Point is he is a regarded as a founder but not an 'American' in the way the other founders defined what an American was. Someone born in the original 13 colonies.