Scotland Thread

[Mekong]

Munchie,

 

I am not sure about the Scandinavian countries but Ireland is hurting now.

 

When the "Celtic Tiger" was at it's peak Ireland they attracted a lot of foreign investment by having low corporation tax for manufacturing industries (Intel is still building new Silicon Chip Fabrication Plants in Leixlip) and Service industries supporting "Hi-Tech" and zero tax on the movie industry.

 

I remember when "Support Lines" were all hosted in Ireland before being off-shored to India but still the likes of Apple and Google operate there due to lower tax rates. Even the movie Braveheart was filmed mostly in Ireland.

 

Scotland, like the rest of the UK has lost the majority of its manufacturing industry, along the Clyde alone all of the Shipyards have now disappeared along with the likes of Hastie's & Kincaid's, Howdens, Rankin & Blackmore, Rowens, and Weir's all major employers until the past 20 years but alas no more and that is just along the Clyde, sad state of affairs when the UK, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution has now become reliant on Service Industries.

 

Another issue is that Scotland may loose its Triple A Credit rating if it was to leave the UK and as such would not be able to compete with the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man in the "Offshore Finance" Sector, best not to mention RBS.

 

Depending who one listens too / reads some reckon that Scotland's account Surplus would increase (including Oil & Gas Revenues at todays income) where many think it may decrease by 5% or more.

 

The topic does not concern me one way or the other but the cynic in me cannot help but question why the UK are allowing this vote now just as income from the North Sea is on the decline, could it be that the rest of the UK would be better off if Scotland voted YES?

 

It's a rather interesting topic and if it was to effect me I would do a lot more research into the subject and vote with my head rather than my heart.

[kamui]

I don't know the numbers Mekong but if other small countries can be independent then why not Scotland? O&G isn't all that Scotland has got. Fishing, agriculture, tourism, whisky, manufacturing, etc, etc, same as others I would have thought. Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland are all independent small European countries, so why not Scotland?

 

PS I'm not saying I support independence, just asking why not.

 

It really depends on the country. We have a lot of small countries in Europe and the northern ones do extremely well. But these are countries with century old structures and economies - combined with excellent education systems and no corruption.

Some of the countries becoming independent more recently are not doing that well (Slowakia, Serbia - both are highly corrupt and underdeveloped).

In Spain autonomous regions like Basque Country are fighting for to become independent states, but they are virtually bankrupt and couldn't survive on its own.

 

Is think Mekong's assessement is very important. Small countries will only survive, if they are a) have raw material to sell, b.)or have a highly skilled workforce and show a lot of entrepreneurship for to develop own industries.

And it is very important that the country has a highly functional infrastructure, bureaucracy and political system (like in Scandinavia).

 

How about the Scots - Highland Games, oil and Whisky aside?

[Flashermac]

Haggis?

[The_Munchmaster]

How about the Scots - Highland Games, oil and Whisky aside?

 

Unless you were joking then it shows how ignorant you are about Scotland (it's a small insignificant country though so why should you know?). Scotland has everything you mention that the Scandanavian countries have so based on that we should do fine.

 

One drawback for Scotland though is that should we gain independence, which I doubt we will, then we will presumably inherit a portion of the UK national debt, which would be a significant amount.

[kamui]

Unless you were joking then it shows how ignorant you are about Scotland (it's a small insignificant country though so why should you know?). Scotland has everything you mention that the Scandanavian countries have so based on that we should do fine.

 

One drawback for Scotland though is that should we gain independence, which I doubt we will, then we will presumably inherit a portion of the UK national debt, which would be a significant amount.

 

I am completely ignorant about Scotland. Expect that around 25 years ago I was invited to join a free tour during an art festival to all major venues (while staying at 5 star hotels) I don't know nothing about it. Scot politics and economy aren't in the news outside GB that often (if at all).

[The_Munchmaster]

Scotland, like the rest of the UK has lost the majority of its manufacturing industry, along the Clyde alone all of the Shipyards have now disappeared.....

 

Not quite true, Royal Navy ships are still built on the Clyde and at Rosyth on the Firth of Forth, including the UK's two new aircraft carriers. However I don't suppose the UK would still use Scottish shipyards for building its naval vessels if Scotland was no longer part of the UK?

 

 

Yesterday - "An 11,000-tonne section of aircraft carrier has been moved in preparation to leave its Clyde construction yard.

 

It took about two-and-a-half hours to shift the largest hull section of HMS Queen Elizabeth out of BAE's shipbuilding hall at Govan on Sunday.

 

It will be loaded onto a huge sea-going barge on Tuesday in preparation for its 600-mile journey to the Rosyth dockyard in Fife."

 

It's a rather interesting topic and if it was to effect me I would do a lot more research into the subject and vote with my head rather than my heart.

 

I don't know yet if I will be able to vote or not.

[Redbaron]

Fishing, agriculture, tourism, whisky, manufacturing, etc

Right munch, same as a lot of recently independent and financially struggling Eastern European countries. If the Scottish people want to be independent good on them, but to compare Scotland to the Scandinavian countries is a bit foolish IMO. Other than the weather and the sea there is not a lot in common.

Scotland if they do this have to be smart about it, and not get carried away with the short term financial attractions of the North Sea. A lot of things will need to be smartly negotiated with the rest of the UK. What portion of National Debt Scotland takes on board - for there will be some, ship building contracts, what part of the "British Navy/RAF/Army" can Scotland "keep". Medium/Longer term arrangements so Scotland won't just become another struggling new country. Will an interim term be appropriate - a few years where the country is "sort of" independent, but the Brits supply the defence forces wittled down over time. Lots of conundrums to look at.

 

Europe is full of countries who have become "independent" only to fall on their asses. It would be dreadful is Scotland was to be another, and unfortunately blaming Britain or England won't count for squat when you are cut loose.

[kamui]

Fishing, agriculture, tourism, whisky, manufacturing, etc

 

This sounds like a 2. world country - Whisky aside it could be LOS.

[sayjann]

Which explains why Americans have won The Open Championship, which is always played on links (seaside) courses, so many times?

i'll concede the point the Yanks have won 23 0f the last 40 Opens held in GB.

but not all in Scotland and if all the Opens are held on seaside courses,why do you say this one coming up is inland?.

[Mekong]

The Open never has or never will be played at Gleneagles, Open 2013 will be held at Muirfield, Gullane, East Lothian Scotland, a course overlooking the Firth of Forth.

 

The 2014 Ryder Cup will be held at Gleneagles.