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?Letters from Issaan- End of story? Part 6 FINAL!


phoenix

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[color:blue]BTW, you must not think much of Thai culture and people as they have this thing called "saving face". Maybe you've heard of it. The general idea is to show respect to other people even though you could make them look foolish and feel bad. It's one of the things that makes Thailand so enjoyable and the kind of attitude Americans(and other western cultures) should adopt. Yes, one can be right but HOW one delivers their point can be just as important. color=blue>

 

 

 

Yes, "saving face" is one of the aspects of asian cultures that I have a hard time tolerating. Most of the time it is innocuous and I have no problem, especially if the person is truly repentant. However, the "saving face" concept is often abused by the dishonest (especially politicians) to avoid accountability. If I truly had a vested interest in persuading someone to my side (e.g. a business deal) then I would certainly take a more oblique approach.

 

 

 

I agree that this approach is more pleasant and peaceful, but I don't think it is very productive. Good for a vacation, not for business or intellectual arguments, IMHO. Of course, some (especially the japanese) have refined this technique so greatly that they can work productively, however, when it is so rigid it then becomes unpleasant and stifling, so there is no net gain.

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Indeed. The unpersonality of an internet forum allows people to get at each other, but I have no doubt we'd be more circumspect if facing each other person to person.

 

It's quite rewarding to have someone come to agree with what one says, or see one's point, which word-snapping will never achieve.

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Farangdang:

 

 

 

Insult me more, fine. Still, what we can do without is your high handed condescending attitude where you are dishing out pearls of wisdom to the masses.

 

 

 

This means, not only are you stating things in an authoritative manner, but you are saying them in a (ahem) high handed condescending attitude where you are dishing out pearls of wisdom to the masses. lol. Hello?

 

 

 

Oh well. I am tired of repeating the same exact thing. As I said, I wasn't going to put much time into this.

 

 

 

I do want to apologize to Phoenix as this has become a thread hijacking which has taken away from his story which serves as a good warning to all about one decent guys experience and the pitfalls one can fall into. (Farangdang, you can read whatever you want to into this, but you were not a participant in the conversations I have had with Phoenix so things we say to each other may have connotations you do not know, but I know you are going to assume things anyways).

 

 

 

So Phoenix, I apologize as I know I should have stopped after posting one response to Farangdang as we all know what he's like by now.

 

 

 

So unless it is on topic of your report, I'll stop responding to Farangdang here. I'll open a thread in the Board Bar for responses. lol.

 

 

 

<<burp>>

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[color:blue]I do want to apologize to Phoenix as this has become a thread hijacking which has taken away from his story which serves as a good warning to all about one decent guys experience and the pitfalls one can fall into. (Farangdang, you can read whatever you want to into this, but you were not a participant in the conversations I have had with Phoenix so things we say to each other may have connotations you do not know, but I know you are going to assume things anyways).color=blue>

 

 

 

I have no idea what it is you think I would read into this. I never said that Phoenix was anything other than a decent guy who encountered a few common pitfalls. All I have ever said was "learn from your mistakes" (or better yet, "learn from other people's mistakes"). From a post that Phoenix made (and then deleted immediately for some reason) I do believe that he has learned from his errors, although it seems that right now he has gone too far the other way (not trusting anyone); hopefully he will reach a happy medium at some point.

 

 

 

By the way, I make my conclusions from the information presented. If you have inside knowledge that you won't or can't share, don't blame me for that. The board must stand on it's own, otherwise it is useless to everyone but a handful of insiders.

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Phoenix, Thanks for being brave enough to post your story. Elements of it I can relate to myself. I can also understand other posters' disbelief at the amount of crap we tolerate from some of the girls. The girls can get under your skin after a while and logic flies out the window. First your dick rules , then your heart, then eventually one day .. your head. But there's always a little bit of the heart left. My ex girlfriend shot herself in the foot. I planned the whole thing myself to get out of the relationship (mainly cultural differences and personal space), so that she would find herself another punter and I could appear the victim and get off lightly without too much drama. She fell for it completely and is now in Europe .. happily I hope. But jeez I miss her sometimes despite everything. Now I'm free to butterfly to my heart's content (and I do), and I know I'll never fall for another one again.... far too cynical now. But it's also a sad fact that I will spend the rest of my life alone.

 

Good luck, mate.

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Gummigut and others,

 

 

 

I've watched this debate go on for some time now, and I guess I decided it's finally time for someone to defend Farangdang since he's being attacked by so many.

 

 

 

Yes, attacked. Isn't it ironic that although you castigate him for sharing his opinions in an offensive way, none of you seem to have a problem with calling him arrogant, obnoxious, insulting, high handed, condescending, and more. And I rarely see YOU using the IMHO when you do it.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not taking sides on what he actually has to say, but why do you think you have the right to approve or disapprove of what somebody can or can't post? Is there only free speech when it's your opinion that's being aired?

 

 

 

As for the IMHO bit, it doesn't sound like he is at all humble in his opinion so this acronym would be false. Just as you don't seem to be all that humble in your opinions either.

 

 

 

Frankly, I appreciate somebody saying exactly what they mean without softening it so much for political correctness sake that the meaning is dulled or lost altogether. Saving face may feel better, but it doesn't get much done.

 

 

 

Okay, I've said my peace. Now, all you "humble" censors out there can have at me.

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"Saving face may feel better, but it doesn't get much done"

 

Maybe we can begin a campaign to fix Thai culture, so they can be more like us, you know, direct.

 

They should eat more like us too; they are rather skinny (especially the girls, I sometimes yearn for a fat, white, falang ass!)

 

I think they probably smile too much too!

 

Yes, I am convinced now! I'm gonna be a direct, straight to the point kinda guy. Cause my opinion must be right! Because "opinions are like assholes, everybodies got one!" Maybe if I'm a bigger asshole my opinion will be heard!

 

 

 

 

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[color:blue]"Saving face may feel better, but it doesn't get much done"

 

 

 

Maybe we can begin a campaign to fix Thai culture, so they can be more like us, you know, direct.

 

They should eat more like us too; they are rather skinny (especially the girls, I sometimes yearn for a fat, white, falang ass!) color=blue>

 

 

 

No, it's much better for only our society to be productive and let them continue to have a weak economy. That way we can ensure a steady supply of hookers and cheap labor for ourselves. We might also want to keep free speech to a minimum and avoid educating Thais on wacky western ideas like logic and science.

 

 

 

All cultures are not equal. Some aspects of one culture may be superior to another (in general, or for a specific purpose). It is disingenuous and simple-minded to pretend otherwise.

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Dave:

 

 

 

I never really disagreed with what Farangdang was saying in this thread. (except for his latest post about keeping Thailand in the backwaters economically) I disagreed with what he attributed me to saying and the fact that what he attributed to me was a disservice to Phoenix and others. The fact that Phoenix went through his experiences and is still willing to think good of people and give them the benefit of the doubt is pretty cool, albeit he won't be as trusting.

 

 

 

I have a right to approve or disapprove and voice my opinion. I don't censor on this category. Is there a problem of voicing opinion in free speech?

 

 

 

In that vein, I voiced the fact that I don't like the high handed obnoxious attitude Farangdang takes when posting. Not the fact that he can post in an authoritative manner. The way Farangdang posts promotes acrimony as much as discourse and in quite a number of cases more acrimony than discourse.

 

 

 

Nothing of this had to deal with saving face in arguments (at least on my side).

 

 

 

<<burp>>

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[color:blue]I never really disagreed with what Farangdang was saying in this thread. (except for his latest post about keeping Thailand in the backwaters economically)color=blue>

 

 

 

So then you are saying that you do think we should keep Thailand's economy down for our own benefit? I would have thought you would be more open and liberal than that, Gummi.

 

 

 

You read into posts only what you want to read and find issues where there are none. That is what causes acrimony and less intelligent discourse. Read a post, cogitate a bit, read, think again, wait 5 minutes, read it again, then post. Or just let your emotions and biases control what you post, arai kow dai.

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