Flashermac Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 << Bringing home the troops and massive cuts in defense has to happen as well. I don't go for across the board cuts. >> So how goes the war in Uganda? p.s. Why not lay down the law to Congress: You don't get paid until you fix the mess you have made! Eff up in the military, and you get demoted and your pay cut. Eff up in civilian life and you get fired. FUBAR in Congress, and you threaten to cut SS and veteran's disability benefits! What ever happened to hanging, drawing and quartering SOBs for treason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekong Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 The perfect business model is oen where you don't need to hire someone. If any of you have a business the last thing you want to do is hire someone. Its logical. Its not only a big expense but you run the risk of that person filing a lawsuit, being lazy, etc. If companies could automate what a worker does they'd do it in a shot because you don't have to give vacation to a machine, pay unemployment, 401(k), get a lawsuit filed against you for whatever reason, etc. The jobs in this economy has to come from the government in the form of infrastructure. Not exactly a new phenomena, 200 years ago during the Industrial Revolution in Northern England there was the fear that "The Machines are Taking Our Jobs" which led to the founding of the Luddite Movement and ever since then automation and machines have been replacing manual labour across a whole specter of industry and business. Agriculture used to be very labour intensive but the days of the seasonal nomadic Farm Laborer have gone, manual crop harvesting is now done by machines operated by a handful of operators. On the railways I remember when there were signal boxes every 2-3 miles or so where the signalman was responsible for switching points, setting signals operating level crossings etc which is now all done by a handful of people in a centralised control centre, The production line was also very labour intensive but in the modern era about 95% of tasks are now done by machines. In my own field, I remember an engineering design office consisting of rows upon rows of Draughtsmen at large drawing boards now replaced by a handful of designers sat at a CAD terminal, the typing pool where we would send our hand written documents down to no longer exists since we now all have our own PC on the desktop, damn I miss the days of the typing pool full of young single women most of whom were up for a night out with an up and coming young Engineer . The first control room I walked into was maybe 150 meters long with 5 rows of control panels manned by about 50 operators, now 30 years later it has been replaced by 3 operators per shift sat at a small array of operator workstations. The upside is an increase in productivity and higher standards of quality control as opposed to the downside of the loss of jobs. It was my father who influenced my choice of career, very staunch socialist, top union official on the refinery and like a modern Luddite fighting against change in order to safeguard mens livelihoods, but like King Canute with the incoming tide lapping around his ankles he realized he could not stop the sea of change. He told me "Son get into Control and Automation, that is where the jobs will still be in the future in this industry", probably the only time I ever took advice off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 My dad was an aerospace engineer for about 35 years. I look at the photos of him in the late 1950s and they almost seem comical - reel to reel tape decks, Mickey Mouse-looking control boards, not a computer in sight. I was a full time magazine editor in the 1980s. Wrote on a typewriter and gave my copy to the type setter to get print ready. Then it was paste up strips of text on a page with cut outs where the photos went. An artist designed the colour work for me. Took an art room to get the issue ready, then it was sent off to Post Printers to be photographed, printed and assembled. Now it is all done on one PC. ----------------------------- Meanwhile ... White House Draws Closer To Occupy Wall Street, Says Obama Is Fighting For The Interests Of The 99% Me too! Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekong Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 My dad was an aerospace engineer for about 35 years. I look at the photos of him in the late 1950s and they almost seem comical - reel to reel tape decks, Mickey Mouse-looking control boards, not a computer in sight. I was a full time magazine editor in the 1980s. Wrote on a typewriter and gave my copy to the type setter to get print ready. Then it was paste up strips of text on a page with cut outs where the photos went. An artist designed the colour work for me. Took an art room to get the issue ready, then it was sent off to Post Printers to be photographed, printed and assembled. Now it is all done on one PC. ----------------------------- Meanwhile ... White House Draws Closer To Occupy Wall Street, Says Obama Is Fighting For The Interests Of The 99% Me too! Me too! Even with PC's its still called Cut and Paste, a throwback to a bygone era of publishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 The upside is an increase in productivity and higher standards of quality control as opposed to the downside of the loss of jobs. It was my father who influenced my choice of career, very staunch socialist, top union official on the refinery and like a modern Luddite fighting against change in order to safeguard mens livelihoods, but like King Canute with the incoming tide lapping around his ankles he realized he could not stop the sea of change. He told me "Son get into Control and Automation, that is where the jobs will still be in the future in this industry", probably the only time I ever took advice off him. And that's where the USA is shooting itself in the foot. The quality of education was already below the level of other industrialized countries before the 2008 recession: U.S. students' average scores in international comparisons have often been below the average of developed countries. In the OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment 2003, 15 year olds ranked 24th of 38 in mathematics, 19th of 38 in science, 12th of 38 in reading, and 26th of 38 in problem solving. This government study showed that 21% to 23% of adult Americans were not "able to locate information in text", could not "make low-level inferences using printed materials", and were unable to "integrate easily identifiable pieces of information. (those are the people who watch Fox News...)" Wiki And it will become even worse. Especially the GOP states like Texas are making deep cuts in the education programs. This will cost the USA dearly, since it will lower the ability for the upcoming generation to compete with countries like India, Taiwan, China, e.g. where the people are hungry and despearte for education. It might not be that far away, that the USA are becoming the work bench for Asian industries, for work which which just requires basic skill like reading and writing, but no further education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Blame a lot on the PC idiots - the "no child left behind" folks. Many schools now have gone to pass/fail since giving grades made the stupid ones feel bad. And every minority group has to feel included, so history includes such heroes as Crispus Attucks (a very minor figure who died in the "Boston Massacre" waving a club and screaming he was going to get the claw off one of those lobsters [redcoats]), but not one of the others who died there (and were white). I remember seeing a US history text book with a section on sod houses and other wonderful things the Bohemians had contributed to America. More recently, all history before 1900 has been dropped after the 8th grade in many districts, as has European history, since that old stuff isn't important. I don't think students even learn the multiplication tables any more. They use pocket calculators. A neighbour in the States was telling me her daughter couldn't even add up the grocery bill without a calculator. Simple addition was beyond her. Meanwhile, colleges and universities have become businesses. The post-WWII baby boom is long over and universities are begging for students - instead of turning them away. I read how 80% of the students at Harvard get honours. So how can 80% be better than average? Harvard says their students are just smart. (Whatever happened to the bell curve in grading?) Plenty of parents are complaining, but who listens to parents? What do they know about children anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 When the Republican gang led by GWB came up with the idea to bailout Wall Street not one Republican complained. Just the thought of their stocks being "underwater" and the amount of money that was 'lost' had to be corrected with a bailout. But when some of the 99% noticed there homes were underwater they looked for their bailout. They got nothing and now some of them are really pissed off. I suspect the Republicans were the ones who really created the 99%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Paul wants to end the department of education. Hard to disagree. Education, at least k-12 is a local matter. As far as universities, they are now bringing tons of international students. The chinese have been sending a ton of them recently. Rich families in all manner of foreign countries are taking the places of americans because of the high cost of paying for school. Some international students get to the America by their governments. States have been making cuts in state unis for years. Increased tuition and fees to make up the shortfall. I have absolutely no problem with companies automating to to increase productivity and profits. We have to. It made us move from an agrarian society to an industrialized one. Jobs don't disappear they change. The jobs lost to those who took care of horses when that was the main mode of transportation moved to rail and auto. Its up to us to see the trends and be prepared for those jobs. Its up to the schools to anticipate them as well and prepare students for those jobs by educating them in math, computers, etc. I've got no problem with that. I have a problem with policies designed to give these companies tax breaks, subsidies, etc. Those companies can go to investors, the capital markets, etc. to expand and automate. Not on our dime. As far as the Ugandan thing. Generally, I'm not a big fan of our troops being used overseas but if it is, it should be for humanitarian reasons to stop genocide and such and we should get a coalition. Invading countries for oil isn't on my list of good reasons. Its 100 troops. Any concern on the part of Republicans about sending troops anywhere falls on my deaf ears because of their history of not being shy about sending troops anywhere. When they do it its to defend freedom. When a Democrat does it, its foolhardy. Obama has made mistakes but the Republicans have offered no sound ideas and their main platform is anyone but Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 And that's where the USA is shooting itself in the foot. The quality of education was already below the level of other industrialized countries before the 2008 recession. Really? If you're talking about secondary education (high school) -- I couldn't agree more. And the Gymnasia in Germany and other European models are much better. If you're talking about University level --> I couldn't agree less. Man, I do not want to play the role of obnoxious Americano. Sometimes you remind me of my friends in Berlin, Stephan and Petra. They used to go on and on and on and on and on about the ills and evils of the US. At first I argued, then I just smiled. Note: I suppose with the rampant USA thread here though, some jabs are a little deserved. Maybe it is time to retire that monster. Incidental, Petra and Stephan now both live here. Northern Cali. From a report published annually in the UK, it's credible (no worries though, Germany cracks the list at 45, I ran out of screenspace though trying to capture that in a screenshot : ) http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Apples and oranges, how can you compare such diverse institutions as MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Oxford and Princeton? How does one compare a degree in physics with a law degree? A degree in engineering with one in fine arts? These university ratings always leave me cold. These folks break it down by majors and faulties: http://www.topuniver...ersity-rankings Social Science Computer Science Medicine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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