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On The Freedom To Offend An Imaginary God


Flashermac

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FFS, the 'guys with guns' routinely put out BS about their justification for killing other Muslims - basically, anyone who is seen as offering support for infidels, particularly support for the Great Satan, is fair game. Its about power, the same as it is anywhere else - religion is just a tool for enslaving people. Ask the Vatican how well the 'no contraception' edict is working for the people of the Phillipines. They've had the odd fanatic in their own ranks through the years -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada

 

If you believe in Heaven and Hell, I just cant see how a butcher like that ended up with an eternity of the former.

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I haven't read anything by Dawkins yet but I intend to and are looking forward to it.

 

The God Delusion is a good starting point.

 

He also did a short documentary series on BBC that is worth a look, called Root of all Evil if I remember correctly.

 

Louis Theroux also did a good one on ultra-orthodox Jews (but also talked with some rock-throwing Palestinians) in Israel/Palestine. If you just listen to the people involved in this stuff, you can't ignore the fact that they're completely freaking nuts. The Palestinians think Jews have no right to be there, period, and the ultra orthodox jews think the Palestinians have no right to be there. And they're all totally committed to causing trouble every chance they get. He did focus on the wackos, I do realize there's people there who aren't as hardcore as that.

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wrong, law changed last month.....no more excemptions.

My link

 

 

The draft exemptions and study subsidies have become a central issue in Israeli politics. Early this year, the Supreme Court ruled the exemptions illegal and ordered the government to change the law.

 

But attempts in parliament to reform the nation's draft law deadlocked, causing one of Netanyahu's coalition partners to quit, and the government missed a deadline to draw up new legislation. With religious leaders saying they will resist any change to the old arrangement, Defense Minister Ehud Barak is currently struggling to figure out a new draft system.

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Israeli politics sometimes get very interesting. You have two major parties, neither one of which has a majority, and several small splinter parties. Each of the major parties has to woo the splinter parties, in their efforts to assemble a majority coalition and form a government. This gives the splinter parties an amazing amount of bargaining power, and has resulted in some concessions to the extreme splinters that the mainstream sometimes consider utterly outrageous.

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The God Delusion is a good starting point.

 

He also did a short documentary series on BBC that is worth a look, called Root of all Evil if I remember correctly.

 

 

I had to fill out some sort of psych questionnaire at work last month (everyone did - some stupid exercise with outside consultants), and one of the questions was to name popular public figures that had and influence on me - without thinking about it I put down Bukowski, Richard Dawkins, with Ken Kesey in third (I only know 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' - but it was literally the first real novel I ever read, stole it from my parent's shelf when I was in grade school - it was a forbidden fruit - and it definitely had an impact on me).

 

Dawkins I've always had mixed feelings over. I love him as a biologist and Scientist. I think "The Selfish Gene" is the only science book I've read cover to cover several times and refuse to lend out because I know I'll read it again. Took very complex things and presented them in a way that's accessible to lay people - without bullshit. But when he diverts into religion... I don't know. You get a sense he's on his own crusade and it's not really his field of expertise. Though I will give him credit for making atheism a little less taboo in the States and emboldening folks to express this.

 

Was there some comment out there on the evils of smoking weed? ha. Smoking weed is harmful like alcohol and cigarettes and fast food are harmful. It is, but how significant? And aren't there much more serious problems to focus resources on.

 

Forgot my point damnit. Oh yeah - Dawkins, literally fucking brilliant, but -- a little too obsessed with attacking religion.

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You get a sense he's on his own crusade and it's not really his field of expertise.

 

Well, then who could be expert? You can't get a doctorate studying Lack of God.

 

If someone came along and their main claim to fame was only this, I'm not sure they'd be taken too seriously.

 

I came across Dawkins first through that book I mentioned, though was aware he was a well known scientist. I hear what you're saying, he comes across as a bit shrill sometimes, and does on camera too, such as in the BBC doc. He does make some great points in both of those though. His recounting of the reaction to the Mohammed cartoons in an early chapter in the book was devastating. His book is especially good as a first one for someone just coming to this subject, it's well rounded and pretty comprehensive, where Hitchens' feels more like a collection of essays touching down here and there on topics in this area. Harris strikes me as a bit too fierce, especially for someone new to this. All of them make good points though.

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Well, then who could be expert? You can't get a doctorate studying Lack of God.

 

 

True dat. :) Just my personal take. Call me an atheist who is sympathetic to religion, or rather peoples need/desire to find some sort of higher meaning in life. You don't need religion for that, I know. But despite all the shit and horrible things twisted up with religion, there are good things, and it has been a vehicle to bond communities with some sort of higher purpose (or the opposite - as Dawkins will point out, and this is true too).

 

I would never turn to Islam or Christianity, but I think it's also important not to see them solely as caricatures (not talking about the youtube film, I could care less about that --> and to me the unrest demonstrates the real crisis Islam is in, they can't fend off pagan Western ideas, Science and technology forever. They're reaching and a little desperate. The Evangelicals aren't all that different with the ridiculous efforts to x out teaching evolution in schools and their 'culture war').

 

Ps. Read the Selfish Gene. It was a groundbreaking work decades ago and still holds sway.

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