Pom_Jao_Choo Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 You seem to have very honest assesment. I allso don't see them being penny pinchers based on the hotels they chose or the hiring of uneeded guides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Ba Falang Kee Nok !!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 cyberbeno4 wrote: far away from the truth.i never negotiated the price upfront and girls seems to be happy with what i gave them.a good indicator for that isn't a smile or a khop kun ka the next day,but if the girl is happy to go with you again you can be sure you've paid the right amount of baht.the amount of money is not reduced because the expectations were't satisfied,punters will just choose another girl next time. Negotiating price vs not seems to be quite a personal thing. I hate undefined situations and I used to agree on the price beforehand, each time and every time. And I hated the "up to you" girls. I quit doing that a few years ago. There really is no point if you know the going rate. cyberguy nailed all the rules down. This is true especially in Pattaya. If a girl even as much as brings up money I won't go with her. One out of 20 does, if that. And as cyber said, if they want to go with you again you know you paid the right amount. In fact, one girl told me she hates guys who come to the bar and start talking about money. I'd have to agree with her. OK, it's a transaction and money is going to change hands, but why do we have to talk about it? artview wrote: No amount of argument will sway me from my position that punters and girls should negotiate the price upfront, but thats just my OPINION. You say should. You seem to feel quite strongly about this and I don't want to argue but I'd be curious why you think that? (Just to preempt the obvious, I'm talking about a situation with known going rate that you intend to pay.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 FarangDang, thank you for summing up what I have been trying to say. It was never my intent to low ball a girl and after reading all the replies and stirring up a hornet?s nest I see that maybe I did exactly that. That being said I will still use my own judgment when out for the evening. Both my son and myself brought enough to pay our way. It was still the best time I have had in years and will certainly go back. In the future I will try to err on the side of generosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 [color:blue]Negotiating price vs not seems to be quite a personal thing. I hate undefined situations and I used to agree on the price beforehand, each time and every time. And I hated the "up to you" girls.color=blue> For me this depends on where I am and what the stakes are. If you have a limited budget it might make sense to negotiate up front so there are no hard feelings. In Thailand, for many of us, it is easy to find a nice overlap for what we think the service is worth and what the girl is willing to accept; everyone is happy. In strip clubs the stakes are much higher and there is often no overlap for what the girl is offering vs. what I want to pay, so I have to figure that out before hand or we're both unhappy. [color:blue]In fact, one girl told me she hates guys who come to the bar and start talking about money. I'd have to agree with her. OK, it's a transaction and money is going to change hands, but why do we have to talk about it?color=blue> For many this may be an attitude based on finances rather than pretending not to be hookers. For the same reason many don't want to go with a girl who asks for money up front ("she's money hungry"); the girls don't like a guy who negotiates up front ("he's cheap charlie"). But fortunately my cynicism fades after a few beers and a pair of light brown tits in my face. [color:blue]If a girl even as much as brings up money I won't go with her. One out of 20 does, if that.color=blue> I think your rate is low because of who you are and how you act in the bars. If you appear to be stingy (or clueless) then they will more likely try to negotiate. If you have an aura that says you know what you're doing, they'll assume you'll pay scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 I do not think that 850 baht per day is so low it can be considered abusive. That is high compensation in a country where a construction worker does a 10 hours shift for 150 baht and people work at McDonalds for 25 baht an hour. Last year I was paying 700 baht long time in Pattaya and getting no complaints, but this year I changed to 1,000 LT, 500 ST because I felt I could afford it. A few weeks ago I saw two girls knocking on the door of a long-time expat. My gf told me that they were regulars with him came to him for 200 baht each. That's 400 baht, two ladies. Note that they were knocking on his door. Zane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 It's extremely cruel to pay so low. Get real and stop justifying this kind of behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Dear Justin, This is a damn fine trip report for new, new, newbie. Dear Dad, I like the way you stand up for Justin as your son and your "friend." And the whole story read as an exercise in creative parenting! I see you are a good-hearted man and have been guilt-tripped by the hammering about what was paid to the girls. This is just repackaged PC. What you probably don't know on your first trip is what I said above: Women and men that work construction and shovel sand or concrete or carry roof tiles in the hot sun all day make between 100 and 150 baht per day. Justin's "friend" received 1,700 baht for some sex she enjoyed and spending other pleasant time with him and sleeping. Neither the 150 baht per day for construction, and certainly not the 850 baht for day for the girl is cruel. It's a free market economy and if this girl felt a bit underpaid she can negotiate her price in advance in the future, and if Justin comes back to her she can choose to not see him if she pleases. It's not like you have ruined her life or caused her psychological damage in spite of what you are being told. Geeez! For those who think I have no heart and no conscience: I did lowball someone in Thailand once and I still feel really bad about it. This was in Chiang Mai and I had just played my first round of golf in Thailand. I was brand new, I spoke no Thai, I played golf alone and was only with my Thai lady caddie. I had paid a caddie fee at the desk and I thought this went to her. At the end of the round, I gave her another 50 baht. She looked quite sad. I went in the clubhouse and talked with an American. I asked him what a fair tip for a caddie would be and he told me 200 baht. Uh oh! I ran outside and looked all over for her but she had left. In this case I did not know and I could not ask. When I found out I tried to fix it. When I couldn't fix it, I felt really bad. Many happy returns to The Land of Smiles... Zane May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Oh, boy I can tell you could care less about how that girl must have felt when she left. Unlike you I felt really sorry for her. I think the girls are going to have to negotiate upfront and get paid upfront. These guys somehow will find any excuse they can to rip them off. Now for your comparison. It doesn't make any sense. It would be like me comparing high prized sex workers here with what the people make who work at Taco Bell. Plus, these girls are taking their life in their hands every day. They taking the chance they could get Aids or up having a kid. It just makes me sick when I hear comparisons like that because they take so lightly all the risks involved which these girls are taking. But boy these creeps will go to any length they can to somehow punish and fuck these girls over after they've finished using them. And I'm sure that's just how that girl felt when she left. Just like a piece of meat hung out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Dear Justin and Dad, Know that you still have my complete support and I believe the support of the vast majority of posters on this board. In spite of the unkind words above. The girls want work and you gave it to them. There is no "rip off" here at all. No problem. A few months ago I had a good looking freelancer approach me offering short time for 300 baht. She was about 30 years old, great figure and nice looking. Not naive or new by any means. She made the offer, not me. Two weeks ago I made an arrangement for a girl to go with me the next day for 400 baht. She seemed really happy about it. I didn't actually consumate (every pun intended!) either situation. After I talked to the first girl a bit more, she mentioned some things she would not do, and I always back off when they start up with "I don't like this and I don't like that." I missed the date with the second girl - other happy responsibilities. Keep smiling. Zane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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