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Hi Pom Michael,

>Lets talk soon about this.  

Sure. Any time.

Hi Mekong,

We sell temperature sensors for fridges/freezers as well as care homes. These are connected via WiFi or Lorawan to a server which can send out email/SMS notifications when certain limits are exceeded.

For more info: https://ambasense.com/

Sanuk!

 

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KS,

Whilst a sensor for a Fridge temperature is all well and good it is hardly groundbreaking technology, but it is good to know that the home market is catching up with industry.

I take your Fridge Temperature Sensor and raise by 48,000, that is approx what I have on my current project, I have worked on 750,000 plus projects but as part of a team 48K is enough for one man, and they all “Talk” to each other.. All database driven, have a unique primary key for each device and the rest just follows..

AI is coming into it nowadays, when I wrote my dissertation it was hypothetical based upon processor speeds and memory but Moore’s Law was/is correct and what was hypothetical way back when whereas today it is common use 

As I said, very few people understand what I do for a living, good the black art, at pr sent back into Powergen (no money in Oil & Gas), have people ever considered where eclectic comes from, you put a plug in or flick. Light switch and it just works, how does that happen? Silly old fools like myself whom ensure we keep your lights stay on that’s how..

 

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Hi,

Sure, not groundbreaking, but how many restaurant owners can afford an industrial sized solution?
The advantage of our system is that it is cheap and very easy to use. You literally just put the device in the fridge after it has been hooked up to the WiFi, and there is an easy online dashboard where you can keep track of the temps and set alerts. Temp goes over or under the limit, an email or SMS is sent to you.

Sanuk!

 

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Amateurs and Control Systems, bad mix if you ask me.

i will take your Fridge Temperature Sensor as an example since you are comfortable with such.

If I was an owner would I need to know if my Fridge was 0.295 Degrees or 0.296 Degrees do I hell, working or not working would be good enough, the only thing one could ascertain with analogue signal is “Rate of Change” But something not offered, a pure on/off cold or hot signal. Why would I sign up for that. Also I can have 16 Digital Signals for each Analogue one

Ones said Fridge temperature rises looking at the RCA ((Root Cause Analysis) I come up with three scenarios, Power Cut, Cleared Safety Circuit ( Blown fuse to you infidels) or a Power Outage, or some cunt has unplugged it. 

In cases 1 and 3 your temperature Sensor would give a BQ Signal (Bad Quality) since I very much doubt one has Uninterruptible Power Supply  (UPS) for.a single transmitter, in case 2 your Router would be down since no UPS and no redundancy single mode of failure .

Honestly KS I could sit and talk for hours Why this is all wrong, but you would probably get bored after 10 minutes and tell me to STFU.

I don’t buy Snake Oil 

 

 

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Our little company was selling and "alarm box" that would send an SMS upon a fault...this was almost twenty years ago.

What Mekong says is correct. Most likely for the average frig in most any environment, what you sell is adequate.

True story...my friend had $300,000 of wine in his walk in wine frig. He had an alarm system if the temp got too hot...luck of the
Irish, his frig got too cold and froze the wine! He had insurance to cover the loss but remember not only the over but also the under!

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Hi Mekong,

Totally different industry. A restaurant needs to know - and be able to proof - that their fridges and freezers have been operating below a certain temperature. Because, if they get too hot the food needs to be thrown out. So, yes, very important for them to know if the temp goes too high, which is much more likely due to human error (i.e. forgot to close the door) than to mechanical failure of the fridge.

Sanuk!

 

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KS 

I fully agree  that a restaurant needs to be able to prove that the Fridge / Freezer is operating correctly but a 16 bit analogue signal to tell them temperature to 2 Decimal Places is an overkill (and a waste of bandwidth) One Fridge May seem nothing but 10,000 Fridges and is soon adds up,.

As previously mentioned, in most fault situations which result in loss of power your temperature sensor would be useless  since also requires power. All that is required is a  Temperature switch simple 1 and 0, 1 is OK 0 is problem, that is one bit of data. Door open, already inherent in Fridges since it turns the light on and off, Compressor running is also available and let’s go for the  overkill and have refrigerator coolant pressure,  Four bits of data as opposed to your 16 bits for an analogue signal which does not report the fault but only out of temperature and utilizing 16 Bits of Bandwidth which would have better been suite with 4.

Also you failed to mention where the Threshold limit is set, i.e. alarm set point. You have fitted a Temperature Sensor to a Fridge, oh woo hoo, what does it do, report to your server via Wi-Fi, server compares measured value with a threshold limit and if a deviation sends an SMS,

What if you have  power outage at your server? I very much doubt you have UPS, redundant severs and redundant Communications lie any Data Centre would have and yet you charge People for the privilege

It does not matter if domestic or commercial, the rules of Control Systems still apply and your system has too many inherent faults. If I was to apply IEC 61508 the PFD (avg) (Probability of Failure on Demand) is off the scale due to your servers not having UPS or redundancy,, a fault could occur but not be reported.  Also the STR  (Spurious Trip Rate) is too high since the Sensor does not have UPS back up any dip in power supply will lead to a false negative alarm / SMS. Peter and the Wolf scenario, it goes off so many times it is ignored when relevant, we call false alarms “Bad Actors” in industry and Alarm Management / Optimization is an art in itself.

IoT, IIoT, Industry 4.0 (I4) call it what you like, isn’t new technology, even though Snowflakes try to tell us otherwise. Nearly 40 years ago pre email SMS Mobile days my systems used to send an alert to the Plant Managers Pager same same but different.

You are a Snake Oil salesman KS, as long as you can keep finding gullible victims all power to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jeez, most people would have a hard time remembering what/how Moore's Law is/works.

Unless you're an English religious pedant and are obsessed with St Thomas More, known for his 1516 book Utopia and for his untimely death in 1535, after refusing to acknowledge King Henry VIII.

But have i got this right? I could get one of KS' temperature devices and stick it me fridge, in the middle of the Amazon or Antartica and it would tell me  via a dashboard on my computer/smartphone, WIFI and satellite, if my beer was the correct temperature? You know cool about 3~5 C°  - not warm, like a summers day in Stratford on Avon.

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Mekong,

Have you actually read the website to understand what it is we offer? Not sure if you are having a laugh with the comments you are making or are actually trying to be insulting. Either way, I'm done with the conversation.

Oh, and for the record, server is in a datacenter, so yes, UPS is available. We also notify users when the connection to their sensor goes offline (for whatever reason on their end). And we have code in place to check for false negatives.

Just because you have 40 years experience dealing with sensors, doesn't mean nobody else knows what they are doing.

Sanuk!

 

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Hi Mekong, 

I was disappointed to read quite a few of your assumptions regarding the sensors, which can do umpteen other tasks beside monitoring just temperature.

It appears the recent Https://TheThingsNetwork.org is a new concept of which you are unaware. In a nutshell a battery operated sensor transmits information which is received by gateways. The mains connected gateways then transmit data to TheThingsNetwork server. Data stored can be accessed in a variety of ways such as their own dashboard or downloaded to KhunSanuk's dashboard.

KhunSanuk examines and manipulate the data and if the anticipated data is not received in 30 minutes an alarm, SMS, mail is sent. Needless to say minimum and maximum exceedences have the same effect. Otherwise pretty charts can be displayed.

One of the most important features is that the building housing the refrigerator could completely disappear into a sinkhole or be swept away in a flood and you would still receive an alert while sunbathing on a beach.

No UPS is required because of the infrastructure which can be seen in the following image. 

The transmission range between sensor and gateway is phenomenal and has already been demonstrated with a single sensor in space transmitted to hundreds of gateways around the world.

If you are still in this particular field of work then I would certainly take an in depth look to investigate how this inexpensive system could overcome or be cheaper than current  installations.

 

 

 

98832EDA-174D-4326-B7A5-8737D6AA8A7E.jpeg

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